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Soft Brexit Or No Brexit? Those Are The Options It Seems.. |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,901
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Soft Brexit Or No Brexit? Those Are The Options It Seems..
With all these delays, court hearings etc all this is doing is making it more likely for Soft Brexit which would be the worse thing to happen to our country
![]() Brexit will happen either way, but the more damaging outcome for the Whole Country (not the people at the top and the "political elite" who will still be creaming it regardless) would be the Soft option. I.E basically in the EU in all but name but at the EU's mercy and with no power in their decisions.. lovely. This is something Remainers can't get their heads around. We basically look weak in our negotiating position.. if the likes of EU-luvies like Gina Miller really cared about this country she would accept the result. She will still be in her yachts and sunning herself on holiday no matter what she won't suffer either way. Soft Brexit is in the EU in all but name, but without having any control. I hope Remainers are happy but they will probably flip-flap like they always do making out it's all Brexiteers fault when it's obviously to everyone the EU is a broken system and that's why the ship is rapidly getting deserted as more and more EU skeptics wake up and smell the coffee. The ones who will suffer are the JAMs, they will be punished even more. 2020 will be like a riot with the anger from working class folk I suspect Democracy should rule and the people should decide the country's outcome.So you Remoaners can have your 5 minutes on a internet forum.. the war isn't over.. it's just a battle. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Even as a Leave Voter, I'd rather stay in the EU if the only other option is a "Soft Brexit" which is much worse off than we are now. It's very meh and wishy washy.
Let the next government WE vote into power in 2020 get to pull the Trigger on Article 50. Because the vote will still be binding even then. I bet most Leave voters would agree. As unlike a lot of Remoan people on here, WE do want what is best for the UK. They have basically sabotaged our Brexit dream and replaced it with a nightmare that will just damage the country.. very selfish from Remoaners if you ask me ! Yes, I understand Remain voters was disappointed with the result, but fair is fair it should be accepted.. the vote was democratic and millions of people voted on this who never voted in their lives.. to ignore their vote would be very sad and set a very dangerous precedent to discourage people to vote in anything in their lives again as they believe it's not worth it if there voice doesn't get heard no matter what.. and maybe they are sadly right
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#3 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,610
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Quote:
Even as a Leave Voter, I'd rather stay in the EU if the only other option is a "Soft Brexit" which is much worse off than we are now. It's very meh and wishy washy.
Let the next government WE vote into power in 2020 get to pull the Trigger on Article 50. Because the vote will still be binding even then. I bet most Leave voters would agree. As WE do want what is best for the UK. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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I'd say many Leave voters would agree with you on this one. Why vote to leave the EU but then end up with a slightly watered down version of EU membership? It would be an exercise in pointlessness.
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#5 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
I'd say many Leave voters would agree with you on this one. Why vote to leave the EU but then end up with a slightly watered down version of EU membership? It would be an exercise in pointlessness.
Soft Brexit means we are still in the EU in all but name - still Paying in, still in the single market, still subject to freedom of movement, still subject to EU laws, still unable to sign our own treaties but with no voting rights or say in how it's run. It's arguably worse than staying in as we have no say at all. |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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The only real Brexit is hard Brexit.
Soft Brexit means we are still in the EU in all but name - still Paying in, still in the single market, still subject to freedom of movement, still subject to EU laws, still unable to sign our own treaties but with no voting rights or say in how it's run. It's arguably worse than staying in as we have no say at all. ![]() I'm past caring at this point, but the people know who they are who are basically damaging/sabotaging this once great country.. do us all a favour and go live in the EU if you love it that much !
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#7 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 3,039
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It should be Hard Brexit. There was no other option mentioned before the referendum (both sides were explicit in leaving the single market and ending free movment) and the soft option only seem to appear by remainers after they lost.
Even if we stay I don't think we would be welcomed back with open arms. But I Agree with the damage that is being done by those trying to delay or stop the process. I'm sure just to say "I told you so". |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,610
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Quote:
The only real Brexit is hard Brexit.
Soft Brexit means we are still in the EU in all but name - still Paying in, still in the single market, still subject to freedom of movement, still subject to EU laws, still unable to sign our own treaties but with no voting rights or say in how it's run. It's arguably worse than staying in as we have no say at all. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,226
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It should be Hard Brexit. There was no other option mentioned before the referendum (both sides were explicit in leaving the single market and ending free movment) and the soft option only seem to appear by remainers after they lost.
Even if we stay I don't think we would be welcomed back with open arms. But I Agree with the damage that is being done by those trying to delay or stop the process. I'm sure just to say "I told you so". Leave supporters have ended up in a bizarre position. They now end up arguing everyone knew it was bound to be a hard brexit - because Camron told them that was how it would probably end up , Butm at the timem Leave complained Cameron was lying, and promised we could have our cake and eat it. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Greater Birmingham
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The distinction is really between Clean brexit and dirty brexit....
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#11 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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Thats just not what Official Leave offered. Boris quite clearly told us that we would have immigration control, and access to the single market.
Leave supporters have ended up in a bizarre position. They now end up arguing everyone knew it was bound to be a hard brexit - because Camron told them that was how it would probably end up , Butm at the timem Leave complained Cameron was lying, and promised we could have our cake and eat it. It was an unusual and unconventional proposal though. Give the EU a bloody nose by voting for Brexit, but then seek to carry on doing business with them now that you've made your point. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Thats just not what Official Leave offered. Boris quite clearly told us that we would have immigration control, and access to the single market.
Leave supporters have ended up in a bizarre position. They now end up arguing everyone knew it was bound to be a hard brexit - because Camron told them that was how it would probably end up , Butm at the timem Leave complained Cameron was lying, and promised we could have our cake and eat it. Rather than people vaguely remembering here is the video evidence! https://youtu.be/aUI5A1Gd5D0 |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,226
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That's why when people say we didn't vote to leave the EU single market etc.. well yes we did because the EU rules are very clear on membership so won't give us any "deal". And certainly not now they know how weak our hand is they will play hardball and we will be like Oliver with our tails between our legs asking for more please mighty EU masters we can't survive without you and hoping they give us breadcrumbs.. "puke*
![]() I'm past caring at this point, but the people know who they are who are basically damaging/sabotaging this once great country.. do us all a favour and go live in the EU if you love it that much ! ![]() And its got nothing to do with the court case which is about sorting out who can do what in an unwritten constitution. Where we end up, on the soft to hard brexit spectrum, is almost entirely up to the Europeans - thats the reality of taking control. Hard brexit destroys the economy, and government spending. Soft brexit gives us a worse solution than now , thats the choice, and the court case, has nothing much to do with the outcome. |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Quote:
Thats just not what Official Leave offered. Boris quite clearly told us that we would have immigration control, and access to the single market.
Leave supporters have ended up in a bizarre position. They now end up arguing everyone knew it was bound to be a hard brexit - because Camron told them that was how it would probably end up , Butm at the timem Leave complained Cameron was lying, and promised we could have our cake and eat it. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,226
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Boris along with Gove, Osborne and Cameron all clearly stated during the campaign a vote to leave meant leaving the single market. Not being in the single market does not mean you don't trade at all - far from it - but it does mean you dont have to have freedom of movement.
Rather than people vaguely remembering here is the video evidence! https://youtu.be/aUI5A1Gd5D0 Leave can't claim, at the time, that Cameron and Osborne were lying ,and now claim that they told the truth- but thats now precisely what they are doing. |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Boris along with Gove, Osborne and Cameron all clearly stated during the campaign a vote to leave meant leaving the single market. Not being in the single market does not mean you don't trade at all - far from it - but it does mean you dont have to have freedom of movement.
Rather than people vaguely remembering here is the video evidence! https://youtu.be/aUI5A1Gd5D0 So if no one spoke of retaining access to the single market - what was all the talk of the various options - Norway model etc.? Of course it was talked about as a distinct possibility and what's more (although Brexiters on here deny it) a lot of people believed we'd still trade within the single market. http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...ritish-people/ Also, in a strong message to post-Brexit Prime Minister Theresa May, 19 of every 20 Leave voters said the belief that Britain could maintain access to the single market was important. This was two weeks after the referendum - it is not true that the possibility was never discussed by the BREXIT team. Someone posted a you tube clip (similar to the one you posted) but with them saying quite the opposite. It just shows the inconsistencies in the BREXIT campaign and highlights the complete lack of direction today of the BREXIT team. |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Boris quite clearly explained that we would get free access to European markets because it was in their interest - indeed Leave claimed it was more in their interest than ours. They discounted Europe's reasons for not offering such a deal .
Leave can't claim, at the time, that Cameron and Osborne were lying ,and now claim that they told the truth- but thats now precisely what they are doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCghi2rVaWY It is downright lies to say that only one 'type' of Brexit was discussed. Cameron told them it was impossible to stop immigration / stay in single market / not pay any money to EU. Leave said he was wrong. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Listen to Daniel Hannan on Newsnight immediately after referendum. He says he has been going around the country telling people exactly what he says here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCghi2rVaWY It is downright lies to say that only one 'type' of Brexit was discussed. Cameron told them it was impossible to stop immigration / stay in single market / not pay any money to EU. Leave said he was wrong. At the end of the day, no matter what people said, nobody knows how badly the public wanted an end to freedom of movement.. you never know, most probably would've sacrificed the single market as they know we have the US to trade with, India, Canada, China etc. And Germany won't stop trading with us because of cars etc. So it works both ways Remainers, you can't say oh it wasn't on the ballot paper to leave the single market but don't like it the opposite way ! So we are left with what we are left with, but we need solutions from people/Remainers that help the country not constantly "I told you sos" which helps nobody and just causes division/hate and destroying the country.. both sides lied during the referendum, but both sides you now have to get over that and get the best deal and right now that is Hard Brexit over Soft Brexit.. I think anyone with a brain would agree. But if Remainers would rather Soft Brexit to "spite" Brexit voters, well that is very immature and shows their true colours.. But that is exactly what some on here (and some MPs and the likes of Gina Miller) seem to prefer/want despite it damaging this country more (so wouldn't be best and shows they are agenda driven not wanting the best for the country). |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Hay guess what Brexit voters. You voted to leave the EU but not on what the new deal would be. Oh the deal is not what you expected well tough because it is not your choice or even the UK's choice.
The deal has to be done in agreement with the other 26 nations. Sorry if you did not understand this during the vote but it was pretty damn clear if you bother to look into what you where voting on. Then again most people did not understand that voting was not actually going to stop immigration. Oh my god did you really believe that was going to happen if we left the EU. Soft exit or Hard exit stuff is totally rubbish the government has to do what is in the best interests of the country and get the best deal they can. That is what you voted for nothing about what the deal would be at all. |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Hay guess what Brexit voters. You voted to leave the EU but not on what the new deal would be. Oh the deal is not what you expected well tough because it is not your choice or even the UK's choice.
The deal has to be done in agreement with the other 26 nations. Sorry if you did not understand this during the vote but it was pretty damn clear if you bother to look into what you where voting on. Then again most people did not understand that voting was not actually going to stop immigration. Oh my god did you really believe that was going to happen if we left the EU. Soft exit or Hard exit stuff is totally rubbish the government has to do what is in the best interests of the country and get the best deal they can. That is what you voted for nothing about what the deal would be at all. ![]() We voted for what we believed in, now you try and blame us for this when it isn't what we voted for. Most voted to LEAVE the EU, not stay in the EU in all but name.. otherwise what is the point of the vote? I'm sure even the dumbest voters would understand that there is nothing to gain from that but only lose ! so don't generalise that all Brexit voters are thick, uneducated and not worthy to vote it is very disrespectful and hurtful ! ![]() We could have a say in our deal, if we played hardball, we would get a better deal but now it's no chance since the government is getting forced into a "Soft Brexit" by it's own people.. yet Brexit voters are to blame when the Referendum was majority to LEAVE THE EU !?
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#21 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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You sound very smug, and almost happy that our country is in a mess.. almost talking as if you are living in a different country laughing at us. Nice ain't you !
![]() We voted for what we believed in, now you try and blame us for this when it isn't what we voted for. Most voted to LEAVE the EU, not stay in the EU in all but name.. otherwise what is the point of the vote? I'm sure even the dumbest voters would understand that ! so don't generalise that all Brexit voters are thick, uneducated and not worthy to vote it is very disrespectful and hurtful ! ![]() |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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That is what you personally voted for. You cannot say what version (there were various) of Leave other people voted for.
You don't keep paying membership subscriptions and remain subject to the club rules and laws and remain banned from joining another club - but lose your rights to vote for and stand for the executive committee that runs the club. Cos that isn't leaving - and it's worse than what you had before. That is what soft Brexit means - the EU in all but name but with no voting rights to help decide how it's run It's really rather simple. |
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#23 |
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,289
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You sound very smug, and almost happy that our country is in a mess.. almost talking as if you are living in a different country laughing at us. Nice ain't you !
![]() We voted for what we believed in, now you try and blame us for this when it isn't what we voted for. Most voted to LEAVE the EU, not stay in the EU in all but name.. otherwise what is the point of the vote? I'm sure even the dumbest voters would understand that there is nothing to gain from that but only lose ! so don't generalise that all Brexit voters are thick, uneducated and not worthy to vote it is very disrespectful and hurtful ! ![]() We could have a say in our deal, if we played hardball, we would get a better deal but now it's no chance since the government is getting forced into a "Soft Brexit".. ![]() On the brexit vote I stuggle to understand how people just do not get this. Millions of people voted they all have slightly different ideas on what they believed the breakup would look like. However the vote itself contained zero information at all on the deal. That was not what you voted on at all in any way shape or form. You voted to leave, that is all you voted on. So Stop with the 'it is not what we voted for' because this is what you voted for. You voted for the British Government to start the process to leave the EU and get us the best deal possible. Their cannot be any disagreement with that at all. If you had a different vision for what they deal might have been that is your own fault nobdy else. Dont blame me for pointing out the obivious and not sugar coating for you. In terms of Hardball it is 26 other nations vs the UK working out a deal who do you think will have the upper hand ? |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Its 27 other nations vs the UK.
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#25 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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i think when you leave you leave.
You don't keep paying membership subscriptions and remain subject to the club rules and laws and remain banned from joining another club - but lose your rights to vote for and stand for the executive committee that runs the club. Cos that isn't leaving - and it's worse than what you had before. That is what soft Brexit means - the EU in all but name but with no voting rights to help decide how it's run It's really rather simple. |
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