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Soft Brexit Or No Brexit? Those Are The Options It Seems..


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Old 06-12-2016, 07:09
Multimedia81
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The country as a whole surely prefer Soft Brexit to Hard Brexit. 48% voted to Remain and therefore prefer Soft Brexit. If just 1 in 20 Leave voters prefer Soft Brexit, that raises the total to 50.6%, thus a majority.
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Old 06-12-2016, 07:45
andykn
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I'd much rather forget the whole thing ever happened if we are heading down that road to be "punished" by the EU for voting to leave.. as disappointed as I'd be as I did believe in our country and Brexit that we are capable of standing proudly on our own.. but hey life goes on, we will all be dead eventually. So doesn't really matter..
Where do you get your "punished" quote from. Anyone actually representing the rest of the EU?

Not having your cake and eating it, not being a able to enjoy the benefits of membership without the commitments is not "punishment".
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Old 06-12-2016, 11:41
FusionFury
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Leave and Remainers, put down your differences and come together for the good of the UK !

instead of fighting about what happened the vote to leave the EU.. we are leaving, that much is clear. Time to accept that and move forward.

For the good of the country, please move on..
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:03
HR Guru
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Leave and Remainers, put down your differences and come together for the good of the UK !

instead of fighting about what happened the vote to leave the EU.. we are leaving, that much is clear. Time to accept that and move forward.

For the good of the country, please move on..
More than happy to if we agree that the only way forward is to be part of the customs union and paying into the pot to retain the financial passport. I don't care about the rest.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:08
Icaraa
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That's why when people say we didn't vote to leave the EU single market etc.. well yes we did because the EU rules are very clear on membership so won't give us any "deal". And certainly not now they know how weak our hand is they will play hardball and we will be like Oliver with our tails between our legs asking for more please mighty EU masters we can't survive without you and hoping they give us breadcrumbs.. "puke*

I'm past caring at this point, but the people know who they are who are basically damaging/sabotaging this once great country.. do us all a favour and go live in the EU if you love it that much !
I do live in the EU, it's great. Have done since the day I was born. You're trying to cock it up for me.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:10
andykn
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Leave and Remainers, put down your differences and come together for the good of the UK !

instead of fighting about what happened the vote to leave the EU.. we are leaving, that much is clear. Time to accept that and move forward.

For the good of the country, please move on..
As soon as you accept that the vote wasn't to leave the single market or end freedom of movement.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:18
Orri
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Leave and Remainers, put down your differences and come together for the good of the UK !

instead of fighting about what happened the vote to leave the EU.. we are leaving, that much is clear. Time to accept that and move forward.

For the good of the country, please move on..
If that's the case then it follows that Remainers are every bit as entitled as Leavers to determine the nature of how we leave the EU.

Now that we are leaving it's possible that it'll turn out that the middle ground really is worse than completely in or completely out. It might also turn out that May was genuinely eurosceptic but decided on balance in was better out. It's possible she's gone through all of that inside her head. Perhaps it's be a good idea if she tried to persuade soft Leavers and Remainers of that.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:19
jmclaugh
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Leaving aside the likes of Blair and Major and those who want a second referendum based on the exit agreement in the hope the UK will remain in the EU there appears to a general consensus the UK will leave the EU.

There are only a limited number of options and imo they appear to be;

1. Remain in the EEA, the so called 'soft' Brexit
2. Leave the EEA and trade under WTO, the so called 'hard' Brexit
3. Leave the EEA and trade with the EU via a FTA.
4. The same as 3 but have a transitional period of option 1.

Obviously leavers will typically favour 2 and/or 3 as they address the key reasons for leaving and remainers will favour 1 as the UK stays in the single market and to a lesser extent 4. The issue with 4 for leavers is it may never happen leaving option 1 in place.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:22
HR Guru
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Leaving aside the likes of Blair and Major and those who want a second referendum based on the exit agreement in the hope the Uk will remain in the EU there appears to a consensus the UK will leave the EU.

There are only a limited number of options and imo they appear to be;

1. Remain in the EEA, the so called 'soft' Brexit
2. Leave the EEA and trade under WTO, the so called 'hard' Brexit
3. Leave the EEA and trade with the EU via a FTA.
4. The same as 3 but have a transitional period of option 1.

Obviously leavers will typically favour 2 and 3 as it addresses the key reasons for leaving and remainers will favour 1 as the UK stays in the single market and to a less extent 4. The issue with 4 for leavers is it may never happen leaving option 1 in place.
Or remain in the Customs Union and the EEA, or remain in the CU but leave the EEA, or follow the Swiss model, or remain in the EEA for a transitional period and remain in the CU indefinitely, or... or.... or....
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:26
Fizix
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Reality kicking in?

We can't have our cake and eat it, a hard Brexit is dangerous and as the more extreme option probably doesn't have majority support.

I agree though, a soft Brexit is bad too, then we are paying in, abiding by the rules but have no influence.

I don't think the next GE will resolve it either, most of UKIP are supported by the EU's payroll. The longer this goes on for, the better it is for them.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:28
MARTYM8
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I do live in the EU, it's great. Have done since the day I was born. You're trying to cock it up for me.
Were you born after 1 November 1993 - only people born after that date have been in the EU since birth.

The U.K. Is a member of the EU and we have voted democratically to leave.

You are of course free to leave now and exercise your freedom of movement rights to join the mass ranks of the young unemployed in much of southern and Eastern Europe. So what is stopping you?
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:31
Fizix
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Were you born after 1 November 1993 - only people born after that date have been in the EU since birth.

The U.K. Is a member of the EU and we have voted democratically to leave.

You are of course free to leave now and exercise your freedom of movement rights to join the mass ranks of the young unemployed in much of southern and Eastern Europe. So what is stopping you?
And the rest of it?


Anyway, to your main point, even those of us born before then, in the 80's, it would still stand as we would have been in primary school when we were not in the EU (so unaware of it either way).
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:32
glasshalffull
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Options??

Options imply something coherent and distinct...all we are getting right now is whatever Bojo, Davies or Fox wrote on the back of a fag packet this morning or what they dreamed up last night...probably from eating too much cheese.

Wake me up when they all find the hymn books...never mind start singing from the same page
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:32
howard h
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Leave and Remainers, put down your differences and come together for the good of the UK !

instead of fighting about what happened the vote to leave the EU.. we are leaving, that much is clear. Time to accept that and move forward.

For the good of the country, please move on..
I'll come together if we have a very soft Brexit and join EFTA (thus remaining in the EEA)!

Now, if that's not good enough for the Hard Brexiteers, what can and will they do about it?
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:39
John146
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Where do you get your "punished" quote from. Anyone actually representing the rest of the EU?

Not having your cake and eating it, not being a able to enjoy the benefits of membership without the commitments is not "punishment".
Perhaps because Mr Juncker said it:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/136483...-negotiations/
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:40
Icaraa
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Were you born after 1 November 1993 - only people born after that date have been in the EU since birth.

The U.K. Is a member of the EU and we have voted democratically to leave.

You are of course free to leave now and exercise your freedom of movement rights to join the mass ranks of the young unemployed in much of southern and Eastern Europe. So what is stopping you?
Stupid bloody question. What's stopping me? All of my friends are here, family, good job. Idiot
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:44
voteout
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Blame the Government. Specifically Cameron but also his colleagues on both sides of the 'debate'.

They had ample opportunity to define what 'Brexit' meant, before the referendum. They failed to do so.

I, along with a number of others, asked the question over and over and over again on this forum and elsewhere. Not once did I get an unequivocal "out of the EEA" from anyone.

We all know why the leavers were vague on this question though -- to have said "out means out of the EEA, single market etc" would have scared off the undecided voters.

Well, you live with the consequences now. I don't agree with those seeking to delay A50 but I acknowledge that this is the inevitable result of Governmental incompetence.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:49
andykn
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Er, where?
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:51
howard h
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Blame the Government. Specifically Cameron but also his colleagues on both sides of the 'debate'.

They had ample opportunity to define what 'Brexit' meant, before the referendum. They failed to do so.

I, along with a number of others, asked the question over and over and over again on this forum and elsewhere. Not once did I get an unequivocal "out of the EEA" from anyone.

We all know why the leavers were vague on this question though -- to have said "out means out of the EEA, single market etc" would have scared off the undecided voters.

Well, you live with the consequences now. I don't agree with those seeking to delay A50 but I acknowledge that this is the inevitable result of Governmental incompetence.
I, for one, didn't realise that (by default) we were in the EEA. Naturally I wanted to remain in the EU as a whole, but had I been minded to leave, I would have assumed that "joining" the EEA was a suitable outcome from Brexit - however it was rarely, if never, explained to the voter that we would leave the EEA on leaving the EU. Doubt it would have mattered to many - probably not enough to change the outcome, but it's just another piece of mis-information everyone was given.

Always thought the referendum should have had three choices, to remain in the EU, to leave but join EFTA (and remain in the EEA) - on the assumption if we couldn't join EFTA we would remain in the EU, and thirdly to leave the EU and not attempt to join EFTA.
I think I would have gone for the second choice, to join EFTA.
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:51
John146
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Try clicking on the link


VENGEFUL EU boss Jean-Claude Juncker is plotting a Brussels coup to seize control of Brexit negotiations and*punish the UK with a tough deal, The Sun can reveal.
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Old 06-12-2016, 13:00
Irritable Owl
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As soon as you accept that the vote wasn't to leave the single market or end freedom of movement.
But the vote was to leave the single market - I gave you the video links on another thread a couple of days ago where all the big debaters stated that a Leave vote was a vote to leave the single market.
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Old 06-12-2016, 13:01
voteout
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Always thought the referendum should have had three choices, to remain in the EU, to leave but join EFTA (and remain in the EEA) - on the assumption if we couldn't join EFTA we would remain in the EU, and thirdly to leave the EU and not attempt to join EFTA.
I think I would have gone for the second choice, to join EFTA.
Three-choice referendums don't work because of the plurality, rather than majority of the result.

I have always thought there should have been two questions on the ballot: 1) In or out of the EU; 2) in or out of the EEA/Single Market/whatever you want to call it.

At the very least it would have more appropriately steered the debate.

We would then have had absolute clarity on where the mood of the country truly is.
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Old 06-12-2016, 13:09
Aftershow
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VENGEFUL EU boss Jean-Claude Juncker is plotting a Brussels coup to seize control of Brexit negotiations and*punish the UK with a tough deal, The Sun can reveal.
You understand a newspaper's interpretation of something isn't the same as someone actually saying it?

Particularly when said newspaper has a clear agenda to try and paint anything and anyone to do with the EU in as negative a light as possible.
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Old 06-12-2016, 13:10
howard h
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Three-choice referendums don't work because of the plurality, rather than majority of the result.
.
That's a fair comment, but our elections consist of a multitude of candidates and the one with the most votes wins, even when the vote is well under 50%. So no excuses for the Brexit referendum not to be the same - and include a *don't know* option!

If we go down the referendum route to select our MP's then, yes, we should whittle the candidates down to two and vote for either.

However - didn't we have a referendum on a reasonably similar system....
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Old 06-12-2016, 13:17
Aurora13
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You understand a newspaper's interpretation of something isn't the same as someone actually saying it?

Particularly when said newspaper has a clear agenda to try and paint anything and anyone to do with the EU in as negative a light as possible.
Media playing up the bogey man so that when government can't deliver what The Sun promised the plebs will be fed the propaganda that it is all due to Juncker.
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