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Soft Brexit Or No Brexit? Those Are The Options It Seems.. |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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That's a fair comment, but our elections consist of a multitude of candidates and the one with the most votes wins, even when the vote is well under 50%. So no excuses for the Brexit referendum not to be the same - and include a *don't know* option!
If we go down the referendum route to select our MP's then, yes, we should whittle the candidates down to two and vote for either. However - didn't we have a referendum on a reasonably similar system.... ![]() There will be people who would prefer to leave but leave under a so-called 'soft Brexit', and conversely there will be people who prefer to stay but think that if we do leave, it should be so-called 'hard Brexit'. In other words, the argument we're having now would have taken place before the vote, which would be much more healthy for the country, and would have served to blunt the binary division we now see in society. You don't achieve that by dividing the choice into three. |
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#52 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lancashire
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You understand a newspaper's interpretation of something isn't the same as someone actually saying it?
Particularly when said newspaper has a clear agenda to try and paint anything and anyone to do with the EU in as negative a light as possible. Quote:
Media playing up the bogey man so that when government can't deliver what The Sun promised the plebs will be fed the propaganda that it is all due to Juncker.
The French president said Britain should be punished for Brexit as a warning to other nations. Launching a furious attack on Britain decision to leave the EU, the leader echoed the sentiments of*German Chancellor Angela Merkel.* Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4S44ELU1D Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook |
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#53 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Not just Juncker, but Hollande as well
The French president said Britain should be punished for Brexit as a warning to other nations. Launching a furious attack on Britain decision to leave the EU, the leader echoed the sentiments of*German Chancellor Angela Merkel.* Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4S44ELU1D Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook |
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#54 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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They've moved back to Juncker now Hollande will be long gone when The Sun promises aren't fulfilled.
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#55 |
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Does this thread mark the end of the endless bragging by the hairshirt Brexiters? Has it finally dawned on them that their vision (if you can call it that) of a wild and free Britain, striding the world stage and requesting all those countries just begging to buy all the stuff we don't make form an orderly queue, was a pipedream all along?
I wouldn't shed tears yet, as a very hard exit may well still be in order, despite it being blindingly obvious that a) it will cause immense damage to the economy and b) the vast majority of the public do not want it. If it happens, their joy will be very short lived indeed. If it ends up being soft, then yes - it's far worse than where we are. Following the rules, paying in, but having no say. Just like you were told throughout the campaign. The misled, non-thinking, delusional brought us to where we are, and now it's the choice of least worst option. A lesson to be learned here. When a massively complex issue is reduced to a simple binary choice, and a complete array of outcomes is promised/proposed, do not assume everyone that ticks the same box as you wants the same. They patently do not. |
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#56 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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The laughable thing is that Farage comes across as the bloke in the pub. Then people get surprised when it turns out just how badly wrong he was about how things might be better if you just listened to him.
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#57 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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The laughable thing is that Farage comes across as the bloke in the pub.
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#58 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales / Canolbarth Cymru
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Leave and Remainers, put down your differences and come together for the good of the UK !
instead of fighting about what happened the vote to leave the EU.. we are leaving, that much is clear. Time to accept that and move forward. For the good of the country, please move on.. |
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#59 |
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But the vote was to leave the single market - I gave you the video links on another thread a couple of days ago where all the big debaters stated that a Leave vote was a vote to leave the single market.
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#60 |
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Not just Juncker, but Hollande as well
The French president said Britain should be punished for Brexit as a warning to other nations. Launching a furious attack on Britain decision to leave the EU, the leader echoed the sentiments of*German Chancellor Angela Merkel.* Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4S44ELU1D Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook And the French president didn't mention punishment either, just that we should meet our financial obligations, pay for stuff, y'know. Why do you feel the need to lie so much? |
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#61 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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Not Juncker at all, you've been told that already, stop lying.
And the French president didn't mention punishment either, just that we should meet our financial obligations, pay for stuff, y'know. Why do you feel the need to lie so much? Britain will be made to "pay" for leaving the EU, Francois Hollande has warned. The French president said Britain should be punished for Brexit as a warning to other nations. http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2016/...lande_c1434389 |
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#62 |
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Why do you feel the need to be so rude??
Britain will be made to "pay" for leaving the EU, Francois Hollande has warned. The French president said Britain should be punished for Brexit as a warning to other nations. http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2016/...lande_c1434389 And I've explained that of course the UK must pay it's financial obligations, what on earth makes you think it shouldn't? |
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#63 |
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Because you KEEP lying, You've been told twice that the people you're pretending to quote haven't said the things you say they do.
And I've explained that of course the UK must pay it's financial obligations, what on earth makes you think it shouldn't? Now perhaps you could stop making things up. Just as an aside: Attempts by European leaders to implement a "punishment plan" against Britain will fail and could lead to the breakup of the EU, David Davis has said. The Brexit secretary used an appearance in the Commons to tell EU leaders including Francois Hollande of France and Angela Merkel of Germany that any attempt to damage Britain “is not a good strategy to pursue”. Mr Hollande last week said Britain will have to “pay a price” for the Brexit vote. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...herlands-live/ |
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#64 |
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With all these delays, court hearings etc all this is doing is making it more likely for Soft Brexit which would be the worse thing to happen to our country
![]() While a hard Brexit with no single market access might appease Bill Cash and Liam "Where's Adam?" Fox, that level of isolation would mean economic disaster for the UK in terms of the pound crashing even lower, service and manufacturing firms fleeing the UK to get into the single market area and a drying up of inward investment. In terms of national GDP, the UK would almost certainly fall behind France. |
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#65 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Attempts by European leaders to implement a "punishment plan" against Britain will fail and could lead to the breakup of the EU, David Davis has said. |
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#66 |
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Join Date: Jul 2016
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Even as a Leave Voter, I'd rather stay in the EU if the only other option is a "Soft Brexit" which is much worse off than we are now.
![]() Under EFTA/EEA membership we would not get a vote on rule changes on the Single Market. Most of such changes are of a dry technical nature and we would have a right to be on the technical committees that do the research for changes, we just would be excluded from the final decision. You may have read that Norway say they don't know what legislation is coming down the line but they often choose not to get involved in the committees. On the other hand the benefits include being able to make trade agreements with countries outside the EEA, not have to be involved in the political integration bit, ever closer union, common foreign and security policy and could leave the EEA at a year's notice -none of this Article 50 nonsense. So a move to the EEA under EFTA allows us time to sort ourselves out with the rest of the world before we have to renegotiate trade with Europe. Quite how someone who voted leave can think full fat Eu membership with the eventual aim of one supranational government is better that EFTA/EEA (which might only be temporary) is something I find strange. |
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#67 |
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Join Date: Jul 2016
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The only real Brexit is hard Brexit.
Soft Brexit means we are still in the EU in all but name - still Paying in, still in the single market, still subject to freedom of movement, still subject to EU laws, still unable to sign our own treaties but with no voting rights or say in how it's run. It's arguably worse than staying in as we have no say at all. |
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#68 |
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Even as a Leave Voter, I'd rather stay in the EU if the only other option is a "Soft Brexit" which is much worse off than we are now. It's very meh and wishy washy.
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#69 |
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Join Date: Jul 2016
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It should be Hard Brexit. There was no other option mentioned before the referendum (both sides were explicit in leaving the single market and ending free movment) and the soft option only seem to appear by remainers after they lost.
Even if we stay I don't think we would be welcomed back with open arms. But I Agree with the damage that is being done by those trying to delay or stop the process. I'm sure just to say "I told you so". |
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#70 |
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No I don't, I have quoted instances from newspapers, if they are wrong then I cannot be held responsible for that,
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where have I ever said that the UK will not meet it's financial obligations?
Where you object to "Britain will be made to "pay" for leaving the EU, Francois Hollande has warned."Quote:
Now perhaps you could stop making things up.
You should remember what you have said.Quote:
Just as an aside: Just as an aside another Brexiteer trying to blame problems he's helped make on someone else.
Attempts by European leaders to implement a "punishment plan" against Britain will fail and could lead to the breakup of the EU, David Davis has said. The Brexit secretary used an appearance in the Commons to tell EU leaders including Francois Hollande of France and Angela Merkel of Germany that any attempt to damage Britain “is not a good strategy to pursue”. Mr Hollande last week said Britain will have to “pay a price” for the Brexit vote. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...herlands-live/ |
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#71 |
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Tut... project fear.
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#72 |
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Yes there was. At the time of the referendum I had heard about the Norway option and had been made well aware by the campaigns that EFTA /EEA was a possible outcome.
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#73 |
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It would make us subject to 27 % of Eu laws. We would be able to make our own treaties except for trade agreements with the other members of the EEA - because the EEA agreement ithe trade agreement between those countries.
Only a hard Brexit really delivers that - cos if the EU still decides some of our laws and the European courts can still override ours then we don't actually have control at all do we. |
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#74 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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The leave campaigns clear message was take back control - of our borders, our trade and our laws. Leave won despite anything and everything thrown against it from Obama to the IMF to Ryanair.
Only a hard Brexit really delivers that - cos if the EU still decides some of our laws and the European courts can still override ours then we don't actually have control at all do we. |
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#75 |
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Join Date: Jul 2016
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Even Donald Tusk said a few weeks ago that he felt the only two options were a hard Brexit or no Brexit at all. The UK quitting the EU but then effectively applying for membership of the EEA and the Single Market would certainly be a peculiar outcome. Many people around Europe would no doubt ask "Why did you even leave?".
The people of Europe know it's a political project and that is why they support it. We, with 900 years of roughly stable borders, have only seen it as a economic project and don't see the political benefits in the same way. Most people didn't care either way until their jobs, wages and services were seen as threatened by large scale immigration from Eastern Europe after 2007. It never topped people's list of concerns and leaving was only of interest to a few right wing nationalists. |
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