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Angela Merkel calls for ban on burqa in Germany |
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#76 |
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Too late. I will ask the question that so many ask on here in a rather holier than thou way. Why should we tolerate intolerance?
(Personally, I think we should all dress like the elves in Lord of the Rings, but that's just me.....) Quote:
Agreed. I would support a ban here in the UK too, it has no place in our Country, want to live here, you live by our rules and show some damn respect, the same as their culture would expect of us if we were to visit their Countries. Don't like our western culture, then do not come here.
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#77 |
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We shouldn't. Burqa-wearing women should definitely not be allowed to dictate to you about what you wear. There, I've solved your problem.
(Personally, I think we should all dress like the elves in Lord of the Rings, but that's just me.....) If you like our tolerant society, and think it an advance on other, less tolerant ones, why do you want to change it into what you don't like? I would not wish to dictate what Burkha wearing women should wear but I have to balance that with the desire to ensure that neither should they be dictated to as regards what they should wear by male religious adherents. I would have thought that desire would receive widespread support. |
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#78 |
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Is there a German election soon?
![]() http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7458536.html Hasn't she had a decade in office to do this? to accept carrying on being the leader. These stupid bans or talk of them just grab headlines. They should just focus on the issues of non integration and this covers that. Brexit occurred because people felt local communities just weren't the same. I noticed that issue I raised here in Llanelli has happened in other towns. Teachers being asked to speak polish The Burqa is such an emotive issue you can see she's clearly worried about the elections. But again still refusing to see the bigger picture you can allow as many people in as you want, But if a large percentage of them aren't willing to integrate or even accept the rule of law. |
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#79 |
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Do you have evidence that ALL wearers of the burka are being abused? Should someone who chooses to wear a burka be forced not to wear it? Are you going to argue that Orthodox Jewish women who wear wigs are being abused because that's where your argument leads.
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#80 |
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This is the thing that pees off those of us who lip read.
http://www.chatelaine.com/wp-content...ab-660x506.jpg The niqab. The burkha wearers hardly interact, but I've been served in shops in Hounslow by niqab wearers, and the school we refused to send my granddaughter to had niqab wearers as classroom assistants. Merkel's political allies have previously spoken out against the burqa, and students have been stopped from wearing the niqab in German schools. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7204671.html |
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#81 |
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Our PM doesn't have the leadership to waltz into a press conference and come out with some shocking statements like that. It's all rehearsed leaked stuff so no shocks with May.. Just a safe pair of hands as she won't rock the boat too much ! Keep things the same etc
Paul Nutall made this his priority in becoming UKIP leader and a week later look.. Germany are finally catching on ! Says a lot someone like Paul Nutall who is more in touch with British people and what needs to be done than our own PM ! |
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#82 |
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I don't always agree with James O'Brian on LBC but I did agree when he said that women covering their whole identity - as encouraged by either their families or an ancient religion - is worrying. There are even young women who have admitted to wearing it not for religious reasons but to annoy mum and dad, who would rather they didn't wear it.
Burkas are unfriendly, unnatural - you can't see properly and you stop your skin from getting vitamin D - and is arguably about women having to hide who they are from men who aren't their husbands, fathers or brothers. How tedious to feel that you have to cover your face EVERY TIME you leave the front door. We've got white men in the UK wanting to dress as women and young boys wanting to wear a skirt to school but you can bet there are no Muslim men who want the right to wear the full face burka. |
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#83 |
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Surprised - you see burqas fairly often in London especially around Edgware Road/Oxford street. Maybe some are Saudi tourists shopping? I agree it's not right to ban it apart from in professional and for security reasons. I struggle a bit with students being allowed to wear them though,
I didn't say that it's not right to ban it though. But since you brought it up I'll say that I think it's a stupid idea to ban people from wearing certain sorts of clothes by law and I can see no good reason. However I believe that private employers should reserve the right to have their own dress code for what they believe to be acceptable for their own private business. But banning an item of clothing in public flies in the face of everything we're supposed to believe and uphold in the UK. Just because somebody doesn't like to see something should be no reason to ban it, As I said before, I think Merkel probably has a weird mindset where people in her elite world seem to genuinely think that a lot of the public criticism of her policies are about how people look. She doesn't seem to have a bloody clue because she's cut off from the lives of average people. She probably genuinely believes that the plebs are all racist and this measure is something she can win them over with. OR, this burqa nonsense is a diversion tactic which could only satisfy a very small minority who genuinely are driven by petty bigotry over someone wearing a burqa. It doesn't actually do a thing to address the real problems which have occurred due to her utterly insane policies. I can even see a potential situation with more people wearing burqas over this as an act of defiance and rebellion. It's a stupid idea and probably creates more problems than it solves, if it solves any at all. |
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#84 |
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Surely the sensible compromise is not to ban it, as its not right the state banning items of clothing - however burqas must not be worn in places where no one else is allowed to cover their face, such as at airports and banks?
I'd like to think that the German public can see this. |
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#85 |
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I know we should not but it is the standard answer when one asks why legal political parties such as the BNP and legal pressure groups such as the EDL are attacked physically and illegally.
I would not wish to dictate what Burkha wearing women should wear but I have to balance that with the desire to ensure that neither should they be dictated to as regards what they should wear by male religious adherents. I would have thought that desire would receive widespread support. I think that multiculturalism is a good thing....to a point. But if it gets to the point where multiple cultures become parallel societies where different rules start to apply for different people then there are huge problems in store for the host country. On one hand I believe that people should have the freedom to wear whatever clothing they want, unless of course as has already been mentioned in certain employment situations, but on the other hand an imported culture should not enforce rules which go against the laws of the land in the predominant host culture. I think that on the whole it has been shown that multi-ethnicity is a great thing as it has the capacity to break down barriers based on ignorance. However when it comes to multiculturalism that seems to be highly dependent on how those different cultures interact and where they come into conflict with each other. Because everybody has to adhere to the same rules, laws, and standards if we believe in an equal society. You can't have different rules and laws depending on who you are. You can't live in a country where its values say that freedom of expression is an important value and is a good thing, but on the other hand accept the rules and laws of a different subculture which may prevent women from wearing what they want and make them wear certain clothes. The two things just aren't compatible. I'm sure that there are women who say that they want to wear the burqa or the niqab or whatever. They can wear what they want. But what about the women who aren't happy being told what they can or can't wear by the subculture they belong to and they see the majority of women in this country wearing whatever they want? Where is their freedom? Are they expected to just suck it up? |
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#86 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Her stance with the UK also changed. Funny that speaking at her party Conference
to accept carrying on being the leader. These stupid bans or talk of them just grab headlines. They should just focus on the issues of non integration and this covers that. Brexit occurred because people felt local communities just weren't the same. I noticed that issue I raised here in Llanelli has happened in other towns. Teachers being asked to speak polish The Burqa is such an emotive issue you can see she's clearly worried about the elections. But again still refusing to see the bigger picture you can allow as many people in as you want, But if a large percentage of them aren't willing to integrate or even accept the rule of law. But I think the big problem is too many too fast. Most people believed that when the USSR fell apart suddenly everybody in Russia and its surrounding regions would be living in a happy democracy. It didn't quite work out that way and it actually released huge problems which hadn't been accounted for. Similarly in the middle east when regimes had been toppled over the last couple of decades, it was assumed that democracy would just sort of take hold overnight. But instead terrible forces were unleashed. Any society which goes through such a rapid change is likely to encounter huge problems which could be catastrophic for a long time. People need time to adjust, They probably need the time it takes for about two generations to come along. |
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#87 |
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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This is the thing that pees off those of us who lip read.
http://www.chatelaine.com/wp-content...ab-660x506.jpg The niqab. The burkha wearers hardly interact, but I've been served in shops in Hounslow by niqab wearers, and the school we refused to send my granddaughter to had niqab wearers as classroom assistants. Merkel's political allies have previously spoken out against the burqa, and students have been stopped from wearing the niqab in German schools. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7204671.html Maybe that's how Merkel is looking at it? |
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#88 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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I would not wish to dictate what Burkha wearing women should wear but I have to balance that with the desire to ensure that neither should they be dictated to as regards what they should wear by male religious adherents. I would have thought that desire would receive widespread support.
Similarly people may want to ban the burqa from the best, or the worst of motives. No way to tell, as they're bound to say it's from the best, aren't they? |
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#89 |
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Yep, a spot of electioneering.
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#90 |
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?? No it is about abuse and the law. If wearing the Burqua is not abuse there is no need. If it is forced on to a person against their will it is abuse. The fact that sometimes it may be and sometimes it may not be does not remove the fact that sometimes it is . I never said it was easy but on balance those who see themselves religiously restricted because they cannot appear in public without being suitably covered are imposing a restriction on themselves, a husband demanding his wife is suitably covered is imposing a restriction on another human being and the right not to be abused in public should win.
people confuse religion with cultural behaviour . as can be seen here its mostly men telling a woman what she cant wear. Quote:
The burka is a sign of power over women by a religion who do not treat them as equals.
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Our PM doesn't have the leadership to waltz into a press conference and come out with some shocking statements like that. It's all rehearsed leaked stuff so no shocks with May.. Just a safe pair of hands as she won't rock the boat too much ! Keep things the same etc
Paul Nutall made this his priority in becoming UKIP leader and a week later look.. Germany are finally catching on ! Says a lot someone like Paul Nutall who is more in touch with British people and what needs to be done than our own PM ! Quote:
I don't always agree with James O'Brian on LBC but I did agree when he said that women covering their whole identity - as encouraged by either their families or an ancient religion - is worrying. There are even young women who have admitted to wearing it not for religious reasons but to annoy mum and dad, who would rather they didn't wear it.
Burkas are unfriendly, unnatural - you can't see properly and you stop your skin from getting vitamin D - and is arguably about women having to hide who they are from men who aren't their husbands, fathers or brothers. How tedious to feel that you have to cover your face EVERY TIME you leave the front door. We've got white men in the UK wanting to dress as women and young boys wanting to wear a skirt to school but you can bet there are no Muslim men who want the right to wear the full face burka. im not aware of burka wearers attacking others for what they wear. im aware of non muslim men attacking these vulnerable women. maybe what is unfriendly and unnatural is the response to a woman making a choice. how you feel doesnt matter, nor how you perceive others feel. what matters is how they feel and it being their choice. in islam men do have a dress code. they need to wear loose clothing and remain covered - specifically from waist to ankles. |
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#91 |
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It's possible that perhaps Germany have looked over at France and seen how the problems are developing at a rapid pace, and they think they still have time to address the issue before it becomes a problem which can't be reversed. There are neighbourhoods in France which have become separate societies, and maybe Germany think that with all these immigrants they have to work much harder at integrating them into German society before problems start to escalate and get too far out of control.
Maybe that's how Merkel is looking at it? |
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#92 |
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. There are even young women who have admitted to wearing it not for religious reasons but to annoy mum and dad, who would rather they didn't wear it.
. ![]() If they ban the burqa I'll go out swathed head to toe in a sheet. I would be wearing it because I like it, not for religious reasons. Does that make a difference? |
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#93 |
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One of the reasons I wore mini skirts in my teens! I daresay some people wanted to ban that, too. Probably the mail readers of their day.
![]() If they ban the burqa I'll go out swathed head to toe in a sheet. I would be wearing it because I like it, not for religious reasons. Does that make a difference? |
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#94 |
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Is there a German election soon?
![]() http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7458536.html Hasn't she had a decade in office to do this? |
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#95 |
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It would lose its appeal if your husband made you wear it.
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#96 |
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there are around 1000 wearers in the uk. why is it necessary for you to want to tell these few women what to wear? what is wrong with you and nuttall? . If not, most of them must live around where I do (NW old cotton towns) because when I go into town I see them every day, multiple times. Twenty years ago they were never or hardly ever seen. This is not a fashion statement, it is coercion by males. The Quran makes no distinction between men and woman, it does not tell women what to wear, it just says Muslims must dress 'modestly'. If it is a sign of religious devotion then why aren't the males going around covered from head to foot in adherence to the tenets of their religion? It is not religious devotion, it is coercion and/or brainwashing from birth. Women with free choice would hardly ever choose to wear such garments. If it is free choice why aren't we seeing women outside of Islam regularly wearing similar clothing? The Germans would not be setting any new principle in banning the wearing of a symbol of adherence to a largely barbaric ideology. They already do and there were nine million adherents of this ideology in Germany not that long ago. Maggie |
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#97 |
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No I've not seen them working in full burqas, but with veils across their mouths so you can't see their lips moving.
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#98 |
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You just made that up didn't you?
If not, most of them must live around where I do (NW old cotton towns) because when I go into town I see them every day, multiple times. Twenty years ago they were never or hardly ever seen. This is not a fashion statement, it is coercion by males. The Quran makes no distinction between men and woman, it does not tell women what to wear, it just says Muslims must dress 'modestly'. If it is a sign of religious devotion then why aren't the males going around covered from head to foot in adherence to the tenets of their religion? It is not religious devotion, it is coercion and/or brainwashing from birth. Women with free choice would hardly ever choose to wear such garments. If it is free choice why aren't we seeing women outside of Islam regularly wearing similar clothing? The Germans would not be setting any new principle in banning the wearing of a symbol of adherence to a largely barbaric ideology. They already do and there were nine million adherents of this ideology in Germany not that long ago. Maggie But it gets messy, because Islam itself isn't just a religion. It's political as well. So you have a situation where culture, politics, and religion get mixed together as a way of life dictated by the state or particular area.. And even then, the interpretations of Islam can vary from area to area where some areas are more hardline and other areas want to be more moderate. Wearing the burqa could be a fashion statement if someone wanted it to be. Which is why it's probably stupid for a government to try to ban an item of clothing because that item of clothing can then take up some other symbolic statement of rebellion. Of course the problem arises if a culture does insist that women wear the burqa against their wishes, in a liberal Western nation. But then it would be tricky to find out every individual's motivation for wearing a burqa, as has been said even if a woman didn't want to wear it she may be forced to say that she does because there may be consequences for her to speak out against a controlling culture. Banning it is just stupidity though. These politicians learn absolutely nothing. They think that showing how authoritarian they are will work on people. If recent events have shown us anything they have shown us that this is demonstrably the best way to turn people against you. Idiots. |
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#99 |
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The burqa is a sinister symbol that has no place in Europe.
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#100 |
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They'll all want to come here then.
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