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BREAKING: May caves - agrees to Labour's motion


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Old 06-12-2016, 16:53
Eurostar
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As I said the publication of a plan will be very vague and will likely be a list of dates of what happens after A50 is invoked. They are not going to lay out a strategy and tell parliament everything they are going to push for, what their red lines are etc.

Seriously this amendment isn't all that much, although respect to the government for pushing it back saying that A50 has to be invoked by March is a clever move. Although it may render the A50 court case in the Supreme Court irrelevant.
Nobody is even asking them to do that. They certainly would be expected to say whether they favour a hard or soft Brexit though, that would hardly be revealing a load of secrets.
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:55
clinch
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Nobody is even asking them to do that. They certainly would be expected to say whether they favour a hard or soft Brexit though, that would hardly be revealing a load of secrets.
I don't think the Government has ever accepted the distinction. It is a distinction that has been created by the likes of Cleggy since we voted the wrong way. He sees it as a device to keep us in.
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:57
Irritable Owl
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Scoop - here's the plan -

HM Government will invoke A50 and open negotiations with our EU friends to attain -

a) control of UK borders
b) cessation of contributions to the EU
c) an end to EU superiority over all UK laws and regulations
d) a free trade agreement

Whether these negotiations will prove successful will depend on our EU friends' response.

There - now vote that down.
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:57
HR Guru
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I have linked to the full text of the amendment above. I suspect this will be the part that the Government uses to ensure that what is disclosed is very vague:

"......confirms that there should be no disclosure of material that could be reasonably judged to damage the UK negotiations to depart from the European Union after Article 50 has been triggered."
Ermmm that was in the original Labour motion.
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Old 06-12-2016, 16:58
HR Guru
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And there you prove my point! THANK YOU!

There is no way the government is going to reveal its hand and another thing, its a motion so its not binding.
Errrrm that was in the original Labour motion.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:00
shaddler
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Smart move by May. The amendment will make it more difficult for people to try to delay A50.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:01
HR Guru
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Labour has already said that it expects Parliament to debate following this motion.

Single Market
Rights of EU citizens in the UK
Protection of employment rights

So yes... May and the stooges will have to be quite open.

Regardless - this is massive news, especially after this morning's statement.

Sky News just summed it up nicely - The PM facing pressure from the Commons, the Courts and the Continent.

The appeal is going worse for her than anyone could have expected. Wouldn't be surprise if it's denied by 11-0.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:02
Doctor_Wibble
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There - now vote that down.
Throw in a free Blaupunkt and I'll consider supporting it.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:05
Irritable Owl
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Labour has already said that it expects Parliament to debate following this motion.

Single Market
Rights of EU citizens in the UK
Protection of employment rights

So yes... May and the stooges will have to be quite open.

Regardless - this is massive news, especially after this morning's statement.

Sky News just summed it up nicely - The PM facing pressure from the Commons, the Courts and the Continent.

The appeal is going worse for her than anyone could have expected. Wouldn't be surprise if it's denied by 11-0.
I don't think May will be trembling in her heels.
The government clearly wants a free trade deal and reciprocal agreement that EU/UK citizens' rights are protected.
As for employment rights, UK employment rights are already better than bog standard employment rights across the EU.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:06
Eurostar
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I don't think the Government has ever accepted the distinction. It is a distinction that has been created by the likes of Cleggy since we voted the wrong way. He sees it as a device to keep us in.
Well they wouldn't use the those words of course but they would be expected to state precisely where they stand on the Single Market, EEA and the Customs Union (saying they "want to remain in the Single Market but control immigration" would not be acceptable, that's just a meaningless soundbite and not an actual policy).
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:08
Jellied Eel
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Downing Street has accepted Labour's attempt to force the prime minister to publish a plan for Brexit before Article 50 is triggered.
Ohnoes!

EMBARGOED UNTIL 201703302359
A Plan.txt

EMBARGOED UNTIL 201703310001
A50Bye.txt

So that's sorted. Next crisis please?
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:11
clinch
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Well they wouldn't use the those words of course but they would be expected to state precisely where they stand on the Single Market, EEA and the Customs Union (saying they "want to remain in the Single Market but control immigration" would not be acceptable, that's just a meaningless soundbite and not an actual policy).
The Government will simply say that it will seek to obtain the best trading terms it can get from negotiations and - in line with the amendment - will refuse to provide detail that will give away it's negotiating position.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:13
Irritable Owl
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Well they wouldn't use the those words of course but they would be expected to state precisely where they stand on the Single Market, EEA and the Customs Union (saying they "want to remain in the Single Market but control immigration" would not be acceptable, that's just a meaningless soundbite and not an actual policy).
Doesn't Clegg fully respect the will of the people to leave the EU, but on the other hand he advocates freedom of movement, continued contributions, submission to EU laws and every other aspect of the EU.
Talk about meaningless soundbites.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:15
Eurostar
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The Government will simply say that it will seek to obtain the best trading terms it can get from negotiations and - in line with the amendment - will refuse to provide detail that will give away it's negotiating position.
I don't think that would be enough. They would be expected to state categorically whether they wanted to be inside or outside the Single Market, EEA and / or Customs Union. Giving a simple yes or no to these would hardly be revealing too much.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:17
Eurostar
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Doesn't Clegg fully respect the will of the people to leave the EU, but on the other hand he advocates freedom of movement, continued contributions, submission to EU laws and every other aspect of the EU.
Talk about meaningless soundbites.
Meaningless soundbites are not confined to the government or Leave side of course. We're getting close to the time when there is a need for hard facts and policies though, not clichés and slogans.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:20
Forza Ferrari
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May is the bendiest British PM ever. If she had a spine she would be in traction by now.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:20
clinch
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I don't think that would be enough. They would be expected to state categorically whether they wanted to be inside or outside the Single Market, EEA and / or Customs Union. Giving a simple yes or no to these would hardly be revealing too much.
You can think what you want. I am not a supporter of the Government, but this amendment is quite clever. The Tory rebels will now swing behind their Government. With more than 400 constituencies in the country having voted leave, it will take some very brave or suicidal MPs to vote the Article 50 commitment down.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:21
Irritable Owl
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Meaningless soundbites are not confined to the government or Leave side of course. We're getting close to the time when there is a need for hard facts and policies though, not clichés and slogans.
Seriously, what do you expect/hope the government will say if forced to reveal more of its plans for Brexit?
They have already said they want the best deal for the country. Every consequence of that depends on negotiations. Negotiations can only begin after A50 is triggered.
Therefore, there can be no better revelations from the government until after A50
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:23
HR Guru
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You can think what you want. I am not a supporter of the Government, but this amendment is quite clever. The Tory rebels will now swing behind their Government. With more than 400 constituencies in the country having voted leave, it will take some very brave or suicidal MPs to vote the Article 50 commitment down.
Which amendment?? The only amendment by the government is the timetable. Everything else was in the original Labour motion.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:24
clinch
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Seriously, what do you expect/hope the government will say if forced to reveal more of its plans for Brexit?
They have already said they want the best deal for the country. Every consequence of that depends on negotiations. Negotiations can only begin after A50 is triggered.
Therefore, there can be no better revelations from the government until after A50
Don't forget that the EU insists that future relations between the UK and EU can only be discussed once we are outside the union, so the desires of the remainers are meaningless at the moment.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:26
Eurostar
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Seriously, what do you expect/hope the government will say if forced to reveal more of its plans for Brexit?
They have already said they want the best deal for the country. Every consequence of that depends on negotiations. Negotiations can only begin after A50 is triggered.
Therefore, there can be no better revelations from the government until after A50
We're talking about the period just before Article 50 is triggered, literally a couple of weeks or even a couple of days. May won't be able to just keep saying 'Brexit means Brexit' as the vote in Parliament is about to be taken (assuming the appeal loses).....she's going to have to reveal something about what she intends to ask for once A50 has been triggered, otherwise MPs might even be within their rights to block A50 if she refuses to reveal anything.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:27
clinch
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Which amendment?? The only amendment by the government is the timetable. Everything else was in the original Labour motion.
See post 41. I have posted a link to the full text of the amendment.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:29
HR Guru
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See post 41. I have posted a link to the full text of the amendment.
And I've told you before that you're linking to the ORIGINAL Labour motion.

You can see the amendment here:

https://twitter.com/stevebakerhw/sta...68081257132032
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:36
HopesandDreams
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Clever Mrs May, very clever.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:38
HR Guru
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Clever Mrs May, very clever.
Hardly. Taken in isolation yes, not with everything else going on.
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