DS Forums

 
 

BREAKING: May caves - agrees to Labour's motion


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-12-2016, 17:40
Mr Oleo Strut
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,311
Mrs May is bending and stretching like an old pantomime horse whose elastic has perished. She will say and do anything to save her fragile skin but eventually she will go belly-up in spectacular fashion. I cannot wait.
Mr Oleo Strut is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 06-12-2016, 17:42
John146
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 8,259
Mrs May is bending and stretching like an old pantomime horse whose elastic has perished. She will say and do anything to save her fragile skin but eventually she will go belly-up in spectacular fashion. I cannot wait.
And? who would you suggest to replace her?
John146 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:42
shaddler
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Station Eleven
Posts: 3,476
You can't really win as a politician.

"Tell us your negotiation position!"
"No."
"You must tell us, it's incrediby important and you're an idiot for not doing so!"
No."
"Just tell us!"
"Ok then, I'll tell you."
"U-turn! Wow, are you spineless or what?"
"????"
shaddler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:42
trevgo
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,380
Don't forget that the EU insists that future relations between the UK and EU can only be discussed once we are outside the union, so the desires of the remainers are meaningless at the moment.
Can only be negotiated once A50 is pressed.

It can be discussed in the UK as much as we like. And I likee much.
trevgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:43
Doctor_Wibble
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,892
And I've told you before that you're linking to the ORIGINAL Labour motion.

You can see the amendment here:

https://twitter.com/stevebakerhw/sta...68081257132032
A better link because we can see both.

And how the original motion really doesn't require much at all by way of government compliance, being nothing more than a point-scoring exercise - but also that the government amendment also doesn't do much either apart from scoring a point in the other direction.

"Deuce!". In more ways than one.
Doctor_Wibble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:43
HopesandDreams
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 713
Hardly. Taken in isolation yes, not with everything else going on.
Your wrong. If you are referring to the SC debacle, the whole case and exercise is a charade, Mrs May can invoke Article 50 irrespective of the result. This has just been a expensive pantomime, totally pointless, and a disgraceful waste of time.
HopesandDreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:44
Video Nasty
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 216
Appealing the court ruling was May's big mistake. Should have just accepted it and forced MP's hand in Parliament.

And if the Lord's started playing up invoke the Parliament Act.
Video Nasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:45
FusionFury
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,884
So we're now on an unstoppable path to hard brexit then?
PM and tories know they will lose the Supeme Court battle so this is fore-shadowing it

If she gets labour to agree nobody can stop Brexit.. Not Gina Miller, not Nick Clegg not the SNP ! Savvy move by Teresa May !
FusionFury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:46
HR Guru
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,660
To add to today's disastrous day for the government - it would be extremely hard to not incorporate the content of the motion into any Article 50 bill which opens it up for more scrutiny by the Commons and of course the Lords.
HR Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:48
Doctor_Wibble
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,892
It will certainly be interesting to see if the published plan includes anyone else's 'canary clauses', assuming it has more detail than 'go and ask nicely for stuff'.
Doctor_Wibble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:48
HR Guru
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,660
Your wrong. If you are referring to the SC debacle, the whole case and exercise is a charade, Mrs May can invoke Article 50 irrespective of the result. This has just been a expensive pantomime, totally pointless, and a disgraceful waste of time.
Hardly. The court is likely to outline exactly which questions Parliament must have answers to prior to being able to vote on A 50 - i.e. status of EU citizens in the UK, consumer rights... really any citizens' rights granted via the EU membership.
HR Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:51
RobMiles
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,006
To add to today's disastrous day for the government - it would be extremely hard to not incorporate the content of the motion into any Article 50 bill which opens it up for more scrutiny by the Commons and of course the Lords.
I don't think you appreciate the intricacies of the motion. Other forum members have tried to tell you, read their posts again. It's alright, I didn't understand at first either.
RobMiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:51
thenetworkbabe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,224
No running commentary, cards close to the chest blah blah all out the window now?
She's said nothing like that. This is Labour's party political manouvering answered with something that makes them firm up their position or vote against exit.

A plan is meaningless in political speak.


All the adults in Parliament could write the plan now.

The Government's plan is to leave the EU, remove the UK from European Court jurisdiction, establish national control of immigration, return the right to make our own international trade deals, and to obtain the best achievable economic trading relationship with the EU, for goods and services. We would hope to retain the rights of EU nationals now present in the UK, subject to an equivalent reciprocal deal with the EU for UK nationals living there., and to maintain our role in European research and educational collaborative programmes. Rights now conferred by EU legislation will be taken up into English law by the Great Repeal Bill.

Thats about it. Its the plan.
thenetworkbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:52
HR Guru
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,660
I don't think you appreciate the intricacies of the motion. Other forum members have tried to tell you, read their posts again. It's alright, I didn't at first either.
Oh I very much do. I think it's some others (in particular the ones claiming the original Labour motion was the amended government version) fail to understand what has happened today.

Just as a side note - the government has gone on record to say that the amended motion is not to be seen as an "expression of will" of Parliament.

Good thing as well considering the Tories have had their fingers burned trying to trick Parliament with a motion under Major.
HR Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:55
HopesandDreams
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 713
Hardly. The court is likely to outline exactly which questions Parliament must have answers to prior to being able to vote on A 50 - i.e. status of EU citizens in the UK, consumer rights... really any citizens' rights granted via the EU membership.
Your having a bad day, wrong wrong and wrong again. Do try to keep up.
HopesandDreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:57
thenetworkbabe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,224
Your wrong. If you are referring to the SC debacle, the whole case and exercise is a charade, Mrs May can invoke Article 50 irrespective of the result. This has just been a expensive pantomime, totally pointless, and a disgraceful waste of time.
No. Once the first case was brought and the first set of judges gave a view, the constitutional issue was opened - with a half baked solution. Either way the judges will now have to give an answer - that Parliament will accept , or change with their own bill.

Along the way this will deal with the Scottish nonsense about them having some sort of veto .
thenetworkbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:59
GibsonSG
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,772
"tomorrow" isn't.

OP said

Govt will agree to Labour's motion tomorrow to publish a Brexit 'plan', but also challenge MPs to agree PM's Article 50 timetable.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38224169

Going to be debated tomorrow if you read this.
GibsonSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 17:59
HR Guru
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,660
Your having a bad day, wrong wrong and wrong again. Do try to keep up.
Erm nope. As previously where I was right, I will be right again.

If you would have watched today's hearing then you would be fully aware of where this is leading (of course you'd also need some knowledge of our legal system).
HR Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 18:01
thenetworkbabe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,224
Nobody is even asking them to do that. They certainly would be expected to say whether they favour a hard or soft Brexit though, that would hardly be revealing a load of secrets.


There is no binary choice, They favour the best achievable brexit - that we can negotiate, and is consistent with our other negotiating priorities. Its pointless saying you want what you can't get, or want incompatible things, or want something bad- when you might get something a bit better.
thenetworkbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 18:09
HopesandDreams
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 713
Erm nope. As previously where I was right, I will be right again.

If you would have watched today's hearing then you would be fully aware of where this is leading (of course you'd also need some knowledge of our legal system).
I have, and your wrong, last time I shall say it.
HopesandDreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 18:10
HR Guru
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,660
I have, and your wrong, last time I shall say it.
Repeating it doesn't make it any more true and my track record speaks for itself
HR Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 18:18
OvertheUnder
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,053
At least we will know if may wants it hard or soft.

She was going to loose thats why she caved in.
I have a filthy mind
OvertheUnder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 18:37
RobMiles
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,006
Oh I very much do. I think it's some others (in particular the ones claiming the original Labour motion was the amended government version) fail to understand what has happened today.

Just as a side note - the government has gone on record to say that the amended motion is not to be seen as an "expression of will" of Parliament.

Good thing as well considering the Tories have had their fingers burned trying to trick Parliament with a motion under Major.
Your having a bad day, wrong wrong and wrong again. Do try to keep up.
Erm nope. As previously where I was right, I will be right again.

If you would have watched today's hearing then you would be fully aware of where this is leading (of course you'd also need some knowledge of our legal system).
I have, and your wrong, last time I shall say it.
Repeating it doesn't make it any more true and my track record speaks for itself
Here's why you're wrong HR Guru, as HopesandDreams has said.

If the Remainers don't vote for the bill, the Government can keep completely silent about its negotiating stance.

If the Remainers DO vote it through, the Government can reveal a small amount while still respecting the spirit of the bill. They'd also have the parliamentary mandate to trigger A50 as and when they wished as opposed to having to hold a separate act and debate on the issue.
RobMiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 18:44
MARTYM8
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,288
You can't really win as a politician.

"Tell us your negotiation position!"
"No."
"You must tell us, it's incrediby important and you're an idiot for not doing so!"
No."
"Just tell us!"
"Ok then, I'll tell you."
"U-turn! Wow, are you spineless or what?"
"????"
Such is the impact of the 24 hour news cycle. As you say you can't win.

We aren't triggering article 50 until March and negotiations may not conclude until as early as October 2018. Two years of this endless will she won't she what will we do is going to be exhausting and tedious.

If the government knew the result there wouldn't need to be any negotiations would there.
MARTYM8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 18:54
DaveMBA
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 189

The Government's plan is to leave the EU, remove the UK from European Court jurisdiction, establish national control of immigration, return the right to make our own international trade deals, and to obtain the best achievable economic trading relationship with the EU, for goods and services. We would hope to retain the rights of EU nationals now present in the UK, subject to an equivalent reciprocal deal with the EU for UK nationals living there., and to maintain our role in European research and educational collaborative programmes. Rights now conferred by EU legislation will be taken up into English law by the Great Repeal Bill.

Thats about it. Its the plan.
You do know why we are in this situation, don't you? As the SC and Pannick noted this afternoon: The original Referendum Act was badly drafted.

The phrase "establish national control of immigration" means leaving the Single Market, which many people (including some Brexiters) would oppose. I'm afraid that slogans and one-liners may seem sensible to Farage and his cretinous supporters, but they are precisely why the arguments have continued.
DaveMBA is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 20:11.