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Trump Slams Building Of Air Force One


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Old 06-12-2016, 21:46
dizzie
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Yes I mean how dare he try to save money?? I mean the outrage. Those savings will pay a substantial amount of the cost of the wall. The current Air force one is more than capable to carrying on for a few more years.
Well AF1 IS capable of flying for a few more years - not due to be replaced until 2020, which might actually be the problem - Trump probably won't get to fly in the new one! I rather suspect he treats these things like 'if I don't personally benefit, why should I spend any money on it?'. Also, why would you bargain down the cost of parts and tender them to the lowest bidder, when you're talking about needing the most secure, foolproof plane ever built?!

I suspect Trump is in for a shock, when he realises that (I'm willing to bet) Boeing probably barely make a cent's profit on the building of these two planes - this isn't a 'normal' business deal, but he's treating everything with the same wide (cheap!) brush he applies to all his business deals. $3b is crazy money, but this is a crazy plane (actually 2) we're talking about - that's the cost of creating a couple of flying White Houses!
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Old 06-12-2016, 22:16
paulschapman
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Yes I mean how dare he try to save money?? I mean the outrage. Those savings will pay a substantial amount of the cost of the wall. The current Air force one is more than capable to carrying on for a few more years.
that is the thing - it is not - many of the suppliers for parts no longer exist and they are being scavenged from planes left in the desert.

Further Air Force One is more than just some plane - it is a fully equipped Command and Control Centre allowing the President to continue even in the event of a nuclear conflict.

As for the wall - you mean the one that can be bypassed by one of the various tunnels that are or could be built under it.
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Old 06-12-2016, 22:50
GTR Davo
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that is the thing - it is not - many of the suppliers for parts no longer exist and they are being scavenged from planes left in the desert.

Further Air Force One is more than just some plane - it is a fully equipped Command and Control Centre allowing the President to continue even in the event of a nuclear conflict.

As for the wall - you mean the one that can be bypassed by one of the various tunnels that are or could be built under it.
Yes I am fully aware that Air force one is more than just one plane, there are twin planes that act as air force one. Air force one can be any plane containing the president since its simply a call sign. $4billion is a crazy sum of money, if President Trump wishes to look into the deal then hes welcome to and if he manages to save the U.S people some money then even better.

As for the wall, it needs to be built, let the drug dealers waste money digging tunnels, they will be found out and the wall in its self will still drastically cut all the dope that is currently infesting the USA.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:05
catspaw
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Yes I mean how dare he try to save money?? I mean the outrage. Those savings will pay a substantial amount of the cost of the wall. The current Air force one is more than capable to carrying on for a few more years.
I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall......
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:15
eggchen
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Wait until Trump's old plane goes down behind the wall, there'll be no Snake Plissken willing to go over it and rescue that President.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:23
paulschapman
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Yes I am fully aware that Air force one is more than just one plane, there are twin planes that act as air force one. Air force one can be any plane containing the president since its simply a call sign. $4billion is a crazy sum of money, if President Trump wishes to look into the deal then hes welcome to and if he manages to save the U.S people some money then even better.

As for the wall, it needs to be built, let the drug dealers waste money digging tunnels, they will be found out and the wall in its self will still drastically cut all the dope that is currently infesting the USA.
For a start it is not $4bn, it is $1.6bn. And while Air Force One is the call sign of any aircraft carrying the President - the planes are more than just an aircraft to carry the president around. It can also act as a mobile command and control, carries sophisticate secure communications. In the event of a major terrorist attack or (heaven forbid) nuclear war a place for the government to be run from - that is not cheap.

Nor is getting rid of it likely to save money because the existing planes are costing even more to maintain, even to the point of scavenging parts to keep them airworthy. I might not like President Trump - but having Air Force One fall out of the sky because of some part scavenged from a rusting heap in the middle of the desert.

There is an old saying about knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Trump thinks nothing of his neighbours and the costs of him spending large parts of his time in New York rather than the White House. Yet he is concerned about the cost of a plane.

More likely this has more to do with the Chicago Tribune publishing comments by Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg, in which the executive expressed his concern about Trump's protectionist trade policies, and nothing to do with the cost of the program itself. Such things raise more concerns about a Trump presidency and just highlights Trumps lack of suitability for the job, where decisions are not made for the good of everyone, but what mood Donald Trump is in.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:29
Glawster2002
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He thinks two aeroplanes that have to be designed to maximise the chances of the people inside surviving pretty much anything, never mind needing state of the art communications, is going to be cheap?

He doesn't seem to understand how big a target the US President is.
Or perhaps he thinks that even taking all of that in to consideration the price Boeing are charging is taking the p!ss?

After all no private company has ever ripped off a government, have they?
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:52
Aftershow
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$4billion is a crazy sum of money
How much do you think they should cost?
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:54
njp
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Those savings will pay a substantial amount of the cost of the wall.
You do know that there isn't going to be a wall, right? That this was just a rabble-rousing Trump lie? And that even if there had been a wall, another Trump lie was that the Mexicans were going to pay for it? You were listening to him speak his brains, weren't you?
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:03
Dotheboyshall
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did trump cancel the contract because he had a hussy fit about a news story
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:39
LostFool
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I thought Mexico was going to pay for the wall......
Maybe get the countries the President visits to pay for the new plane.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:10
grassmarket
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Amazing that we can get 36 comments into a thread criticizing Trump for being dumb, arrogant etc, and nobody even thinks to find out what the normal price of a 747-8 is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747

It's $350 million. The US Govt is buying two. So from a unit cost of $700 million, Boeing are saying that all the upgrades and personalisations are somehow going to cost an extra $3.3 billion on top of basic.

Obviously it will be a fair bit more, but five times more than that unit cost of the plane itself? Somehow I think Trump is right on this.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:17
welwynrose
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Wait until Trump's old plane goes down behind the wall, there'll be no Snake Plissken willing to go over it and rescue that President.
I know its no laughing matter but I did find this funny
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:23
mimik1uk
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Amazing that we can get 36 comments into a thread criticizing Trump for being dumb, arrogant etc, and nobody even thinks to find out what the normal price of a 747-8 is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747

It's $350 million. The US Govt is buying two. So from a unit cost of $700 million, Boeing are saying that all the upgrades and personalisations are somehow going to cost an extra $3.3 billion on top of basic.

Obviously it will be a fair bit more, but five times more than that unit cost of the plane itself? Somehow I think Trump is right on this.
thats relies on assuming Trump's figure of $4bn being accurate which is not usually a good idea

if trump was really worried about taxpayer money being "wasted" why is he making decisions about not moving his family to washington that is expected to cost the taxpayer an extra $1m a day?

part of that $1m a day going into his own pockets btw as the secret service will be required to rent space in Trump Tower
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:33
grassmarket
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part of that $1m a day going into his own pockets btw as the secret service will be required to rent space in Trump Tower
Ah yes, the Joe Biden precedent, of course.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:45
mimik1uk
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Ah yes, the Joe Biden precedent, of course.
a little difference between $2000 for a cottage and what the rent in Trump Tower will be

and the size of the presence at Trump Tower, not to mention the level of disruption that it will cause to 5th Avenue, will need to be greater because its going to be a permanent residence and because of the difficulty in securing it

but its ok to praise trump for not wasting taxpayer money on AF1, even tho he almost certainly tweeted because Boeing criticised his views on free trade rather than anything to do with him wanting to be thrifty, but at the same time just deflect any criticism of the extra $1M a day its going to cost on security for him ...
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:47
Mark_Jones9
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Amazing that we can get 36 comments into a thread criticizing Trump for being dumb, arrogant etc, and nobody even thinks to find out what the normal price of a 747-8 is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747

It's $350 million. The US Govt is buying two. So from a unit cost of $700 million, Boeing are saying that all the upgrades and personalisations are somehow going to cost an extra $3.3 billion on top of basic.

Obviously it will be a fair bit more, but five times more than that unit cost of the plane itself? Somehow I think Trump is right on this.
According to Boeing they are currently under contract for $170 million

The US government budgeted costs for the Air Force One replacement program is $2.87 billion.

The estimate by the US government accountability office is $3.2 billion
Total program (fiscal years 2010-2020): $3,210.6 million
Research and development (fiscal years 2010-2020): $1,987.1 million
Procurement (fiscal years 2017-2020): $282.2 million

According to Trump the cost is more than $4 billion
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:54
duckymallard
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Casting aside the cost factor - does this idiot think he's going to be President for ever?

Does he believe that if that's not the case then each and every president who follows will have their own aircraft just like him?

I have always associated trump with the expelling of gas from ones body....................this baffoon is giving that function a bad name.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:04
njp
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Casting aside the cost factor - does this idiot think he's going to be President for ever?
Perhaps he thinks he might be the last President... In which case there are probably enough spares left for the existing aircraft to enable Trump to launch a nuclear conflagration.

Does he believe that if that's not the case then each and every president who follows will have their own aircraft just like him?
Is he seriously suggesting upgrading his own aircraft to allow in-flight refuelling, secure and robust communications, anti-missile defences etc etc?
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:06
Mark_Jones9
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Casting aside the cost factor - does this idiot think he's going to be President for ever?

Does he believe that if that's not the case then each and every president who follows will have their own aircraft just like him?

I have always associated trump with the expelling of gas from ones body....................this baffoon is giving that function a bad name.
Why do US presidents need special hugely expense planes?
Is there not a chain of command in the event the US president is unavailable or killed?
Other countries do not bother providing their heads of state, presidents or prime ministers with special hugely expensive planes.

What would be UK posters deriding Trump, response to Theresa May declaring the UK would spend £2.54 billion on two special planes for her and future prime ministers use.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:50
Dotheboyshall
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I reckon that trump is upset because he wont get to fly in the new plane.
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Old 07-12-2016, 13:27
mimik1uk
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Why do US presidents need special hugely expense planes?
Is there not a chain of command in the event the US president is unavailable or killed?
Other countries do not bother providing their heads of state, presidents or prime ministers with special hugely expensive planes.

What would be UK posters deriding Trump, response to Theresa May declaring the UK would spend £2.54 billion on two special planes for her and future prime ministers use.
people are deriding trump for saying he wants to cancel a contract with boeing within hours of a statement from them criticising his approach to free markets

and for him using the excuse he wants to save taxpayers money despite being happy to blow a helluva lot of it on other things

in addition i'd be fairly sure if AF1 didn't exist and they had to charter aircraft on a case by case basis over the lifespan of the new aircraft it would probably cost a helluva lot of money and not be fit for purpose either

alternatively they could just reduce the insane levels of security that exist around the president and see what happens, i'd be happy for trump to take that risk
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Old 07-12-2016, 17:03
Tracy
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I imagine what Trump is doing is over inflating the price of the 2 new Air Force Ones, so he can then suddenly say he struck a deal with Boeing and now its cheaper.

And claim credit for something he didn't do as usual and people will just believe him.
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Old 07-12-2016, 17:20
Nilrem
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Why do US presidents need special hugely expense planes?
Is there not a chain of command in the event the US president is unavailable or killed?
Other countries do not bother providing their heads of state, presidents or prime ministers with special hugely expensive planes.

What would be UK posters deriding Trump, response to Theresa May declaring the UK would spend £2.54 billion on two special planes for her and future prime ministers use.
One of the reasons for AF1 is to allow the chain of command to remain intact at all times, including when the president is travelling.
The US government has some very robust systems to allow for a continuation in the chain of command if something happens, but it would still cause confusion for a while at least (which is not good), and the President still needs to be in contact when travelling under normal circumstances, and given the size of the US he is travelling a lot.

It's also worth noting that apparently Trump has billed the US government something like $1,000,000 for carrying the secret service teams since he got nominated, as the government policy is that all such staff pay for transport when not on a government aircraft.

Given I doubt Trump's costs incurred for carrying his team of bodyguards has been anything like that figure, I suspect he's been making some money out of it (in the same way he increased how much he was charging for his campaigns use of his offices about a day after he got confirmed as the candidate, from memory the rent doubled).

Air Force one is pretty much a complete custom rebuild internally and partial custom rebuild externally of the standard aircraft as it's got to be able to not only provide communications for the president, bu protection that is normally expected from a military aircraft and things like a fully equipped medical room (closer to an ER critical care bay than a school medical room).

Any changes to an airframe such as adding a proper mid air refuelling system adds a lot as it doesn't matter if it's for a single aircraft or a fleet of hundreds the design and testing costs are the same, and given that they only make 2 or 3 "Air force one" specification craft that means it's very expensive per aircraft.
However that aircraft is likely to then be in use for 20 odd years, the current ones are nearly 30 years old (with some spares becoming much harder to find as new) and most of the commercial airframes of that age have long since been relegated to cargo.or budget local airline use.
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Old 07-12-2016, 18:45
Lyricalis
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How the UK handles air travel for royals and government:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_tr...United_Kingdom

It looks a lot more affordable, but the two aren't directly comparable. For a start, the US is much bigger than the UK, so more use of air travel over road or rail, and do we really care if our leaders are around after a nuclear attack?
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