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For the Remoaners claiming we didn't vote to leave the single market.... |
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#76 |
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Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,204
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Remainers seem to think we can honour the referendum result yet still opt to remain members of the single market.
I have to tell them that this prospect seems highly unlikely given the stance of the EU that single market membership = 4 freedoms being retained. Whatever you think people voted for, a majorty vote to leave the EU surely means that those voting have demanded an end to 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of those freedoms. Without all 4 being honoured, we are out of the SM. Haven't they said that we can't cherry-pick? The only chance of being in the SM is if the EU do a U-turn and give us our cake (cherry cake, anybody?). So tell me, remainers, how the referendum result can be honoured AND we stay in the SM?? |
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#77 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
Posts: 10,402
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Quote:
Remoaners don't deal with fachts well
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#78 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 3,039
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Except there's no reason to think we will trade more outside the EU than now , or companies will even survive long enough - while they wait for post 2019 trade deals to be worked up. We entered the EU because our global trading strategy had failed miserably - nothing has improved much since.
And all those countries you mention are precisely the ones that we are protected from now by the EU, plus the ones where things are too chaotic to conduct fair trade. A trade deal will mean their imports coming here . As their Labour costs are much lower , guess who is going to lose jobs? And hopes for the US seem unrealistic . Trump is a protectionist - who is demanding more favourable trade deals for the US . if we get anything, its going to be by taking what he wants us to take, and adopting what standards he wants us to, Its a new meaning of taking control - just not us doing it. If the EU is predicted to grow by 1.6% and 1.5% but the major developed and emerging countries are set to grow at between 2.5% and 7% we will have a much better opportunity to sell our goods to them rather than just focusing on the EU. The reason our global trade strategy hasn't improved since we joined the EU is precisely because we are in the EU. When we joined China's GDP in terms of billion dollars was next to nothing at $46bn. It began expanding in the late 90's and is now 11,000 billion. Other developing countries are also performing along similar lines (Though not at China's level) |
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#79 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,437
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Quote:
Remainers seem to think we can honour the referendum result yet still opt to remain members of the single market.
I have to tell them that this prospect seems highly unlikely given the stance of the EU that single market membership = 4 freedoms being retained. Whatever you think people voted for, a majorty vote to leave the EU surely means that those voting have demanded an end to 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of those freedoms. Without all 4 being honoured, we are out of the SM. Haven't they said that we can't cherry-pick? The only chance of being in the SM is if the EU do a U-turn and give us our cake (cherry cake, anybody?). So tell me, remainers, how the referendum result can be honoured AND we stay in the SM?? |
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#80 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,380
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Millions voted without the faintest idea about the implications. As this poll shows, 90% want free access to the single market, but 70% want immigration controls. The cake-and-eat-it brigade.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/analysis/...t-from-brexit/ When the stark choice between the two stares them in the face, and they realise they were misled there will be serious tears. |
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#81 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,735
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#82 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Nailsworth, Gloucestershire
Posts: 10,402
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Quote:
Remainers seem to think we can honour the referendum result yet still opt to remain members of the single market.
I have to tell them that this prospect seems highly unlikely given the stance of the EU that single market membership = 4 freedoms being retained. Whatever you think people voted for, a majorty vote to leave the EU surely means that those voting have demanded an end to 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of those freedoms. Without all 4 being honoured, we are out of the SM. Haven't they said that we can't cherry-pick? The only chance of being in the SM is if the EU do a U-turn and give us our cake (cherry cake, anybody?). So tell me, remainers, how the referendum result can be honoured AND we stay in the SM?? The possibility of having to buy a visa to travel to Europe on holiday. The possibility of the price of all of our imports, food, goods, etc, increasing because of WTO import tarrifs. The possibility of declining exports because of those same tariffs meaning our goods and services are less competitive. The possibility of a crisis in the NHS and social care services if those Eastern Europeans deemed "unskilled", who carry out many of those essential jobs, are required to leave. I could go on, but none of this was mentioned or considered by the Leave campaign and dismissed as "scaremongering" or Project Feat when mentioned by the Remain campaign. Of course none of the above many happen but if the recent speech by Michel Barnier is anything to go by, they are becoming somewhat more likely. |
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#83 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,968
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Millions voted without the faintest idea about the implications. As this poll shows, 90% want free access to the single market, but 70% want immigration controls. The cake-and-eat-it brigade.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/analysis/...t-from-brexit/ When the stark choice between the two stares them in the face, and they realise they were misled there will be serious tears. |
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#84 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,995
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If you voted to leave to stop FoM or make UK law not subservient to EU law or to stop paying billions in contributions to the EU or for all of those then you voted to leave the single market.
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#85 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,204
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Simply - follow the example of Norway. Not a member of the EU but has access to the EU’s internal market. Not that I would recommend it, but it's a possibility.
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#86 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,682
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Too many disadvantages if we followed the Norway model and not something the public voted for.
The Norway model isn't ideal but it looks like the least worst solution for the mess we are in. |
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#87 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,772
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#88 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,204
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As a 'remainer' I understand the possible consequences of losing those four 'freedoms', however I wonder just how many of those who voted to leave actually do?
The possibility of having to buy a visa to travel to Europe on holiday. The possibility of the price of all of our imports, food, goods, etc, increasing because of WTO import tarrifs. The possibility of declining exports because of those same tariffs meaning our goods and services are less competitive. The possibility of a crisis in the NHS and social care services if those Eastern Europeans deemed "unskilled", who carry out many of those essential jobs, are required to leave. I could go on, but none of this was mentioned or considered by the Leave campaign and dismissed as "scaremongering" or Project Feat when mentioned by the Remain campaign. Of course none of the above many happen but if the recent speech by Michel Barnier is anything to go by, they are becoming somewhat more likely. Imports from the EU which will increase in price will be balanced by low prices from non-EU countries who we will be free to trade with. Declining exports: well the EU's exports to us will also decline giving opportunities to UK companies to fill the void. Also, we will be able to do trade deals around the world with a much larger region. NHS: no one is talking of stopping immigration completely. We will be able to pick and choose who comes in, doctors and nurses included. We can cherry pick from the world, not just from the EU. Plenty of this WAS mentioned during the debates. Barnier should realise that a free trade deal between the EU and the UK is in the interests of both parties. We are a big customer of theirs. Why would they happily agree to tariffs on their exports to us? They might, but does it make sense? |
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#89 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,437
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If you voted to leave to stop FoM or make UK law not subservient to EU law or to stop paying billions in contributions to the EU or for all of those then you voted to leave the single market.
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#90 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,582
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Remainers seem to think we can honour the referendum result yet still opt to remain members of the single market.
I have to tell them that this prospect seems highly unlikely given the stance of the EU that single market membership = 4 freedoms being retained. Whatever you think people voted for, a majorty vote to leave the EU surely means that those voting have demanded an end to 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of those freedoms. Without all 4 being honoured, we are out of the SM. Haven't they said that we can't cherry-pick? The only chance of being in the SM is if the EU do a U-turn and give us our cake (cherry cake, anybody?). So tell me, remainers, how the referendum result can be honoured AND we stay in the SM?? Receives cake and eats. |
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#91 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,204
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No one said the vote wasn't to leave the single market. However only an idiot would think it was a good thing.
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#92 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,204
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Easy. Honour the fact that the referendum was advisory, was stated as so, and does not need to be acted on.
Receives cake and eats. Chokes on cake. |
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#93 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 5,005
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No one said the vote wasn't to leave the single market. However only an idiot would think it was a good thing.
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#94 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,204
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And it follows that if you didn't vote to leave for any of these reasons, then you didn't vote to leave the single market.
Still waiting to hear how we can honour the vote to LEAVE THE EU and remain in the single market. Hint: EU would need to do a U-turn. |
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#95 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,437
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Quote:
Here's someone who thinks that the referendum can be honoured by, effectively, remaining in the EU.
Still waiting to hear how we can honour the vote to LEAVE THE EU and remain in the single market. Hint: EU would need to do a U-turn. |
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#96 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Coventry
Posts: 6,990
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I voted out for a few reasons, getting that Blue flag out of this country for one. I didn't vote to leave Europe, I voted to get the EU out of this country.
I'm think a lot of folk are sick of people saying "no one knew what they voted for" but it's going to continue to make some people feel better so it's fine. There's 40years worth of laws that need to be negotiated so literally no one has thought of every single one before voting. I'm sure a huge majority of people voted based on their views on a few issues (immigration, trade, fishing etc) and knew there would be a ton of laws we know nothing about that have been passed (slightly scary) that would be effected. I'll be glad when the UK PM can go round to various parts of the world and Europe without having to stand next to the Union Flag and the EU flag, just 1 is enough. |
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#97 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,682
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I'll be glad when the UK PM can go round to various parts of the world and Europe without having to stand next to the Union Flag and the EU flag, just 1 is enough.
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#98 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18,881
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Millions voted without the faintest idea about the implications. As this poll shows, 90% want free access to the single market, but 70% want immigration controls. The cake-and-eat-it brigade.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/analysis/...t-from-brexit/ When the stark choice between the two stares them in the face, and they realise they were misled there will be serious tears.
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#99 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,380
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Best prepare by emptying the buckets you've been using since June.
![]() We on this side will have the last laugh. |
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#100 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
Posts: 20,380
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Quote:
I voted out for a few reasons, getting that Blue flag out of this country for one. I didn't vote to leave Europe, I voted to get the EU out of this country.
Are you allergic to blue, or stars, or something? There's probably (imported) medication available. |
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