Oh tears of joy.

Not everything is about the cost, though. It is also about the hassle of potentially having to do it every time you go to Europe.


We are already free to trade with non-EU countries and the idea those costs will suddenly plummet is a false one.

Very quietly, Liam Fox admits the Brexit lie


If that is true the cost of our imports from non-EU countries are likely to remain exactly the same and will not be lowered at all.


And where are we suddenly going to obtain the manufacturing base and skills necessary to achieve that?


The problem is that much of the work the (recent) immigrant population currently do, care assistants, etc, are precisely the sort of low-skilled but necessary jobs that wouldn't meet any entry threshold and I wouldn't rely on the UK unemployed to pick up the shortfall.


It doesn't matter if it makes sense, the EU were always going to play hard-ball as a warning to others, it is how it impacts us that matters and at present the omens do not look too good.

Only because you ignore everything. I've already explained how the official leave leaflet used Iceland, an EEA member, as an example.

Leavers saying one thing one minute may be a "fact" but hardly conclusive when they say something else the next.

Maths is my strong point, That's how I came to that conclusion.

Only Brexit logic. Remain logic say we continue to trade with both successfuly as we do now, with the faster growing non EU countries (including developing economies) contributing a greater share of our exports.

And the first two countries I looked at, Canada and Russia, seemed to also have lower growth forecasts than the EU so I'm not sure where you get your facts from

Are you claiming that a major multinational actually exited the Europe market altogether?

Er, lower priced products aren't much use if they're products we used to make to provide our salaries to buy those things.

Well I could say half the EU countries are well below the EU Average and would be right by your logic but that is not the point. The main ones above are the former eastern bloc but only because they are coming from such a low point.. I never said we would stop trading with the EU altogether but that we had more opportunity for growing our export market outside the EU.

I got my figures from the World Bank forecasts. Apologies I did miss Russia off the list (it was late) and for some reason Canada does not appear in their table.

In terms of operating themselves in the EU they did. Everything is now sold under third party companies. All assets were sold and staff transferred to the third parties or were made redundant. And that was 10 years ago. They could see the writing on the wall, the market was saturated with virtually no significant growth opportunities.

The Visa will probably run for a year, or maybe 3 years, so that's no big deal.

Being in the customs union, as we are now, severely restricts our chances of doing deals outside the EU. Once free, we can do any deal we want and this will allow for cheaper imports. Remember that the EU is, over and above all, a huge protectionist organisation that is dedicated to keeping prices up for the benefit of big businesses at the expense of its consumers. This is why big business is so in favour of the UK staying in the EU. It's not for consumer benefit reasons.

If we can devise manufacturing bases and skills then there is a clear opportunity there for some enterprising companies to take advantage. I hate when remainers bleat that "ooh, it's too difficult, we can't do any of that".

Care workers, doctors, nurses, in fact any sectors where we have a shortfall of employees can be fixed by taking in more or fewer immigrants. Once you have the flexibility (CONTROL) you can do anything you want. And you may find it unpalatable but get ready for UK unemployed being forced to take work that is offered or face losing their benefits.

If the EU intends to play hardball then so be it, but it won't be in its own interests because it will be reducing the level of its exports to the UK and/or the government will make money by reaping the value of the tariffs that are paid by people who continue to buy EU goods. Remember that we are huge net importers of EU goods, so the EU will lose more by its hardball stance.

When the UK has left, the rest of the EU will have to take up the slack of accepting immigrants, subsidising eastern Europe, bailing out banks and all the other burdens that the UK shares disproportionately. This will strain the already-flagging EU and lead to inevitable changes. They may well come round to giving us our cake albeit after a few lessons of their intransigence have been learned.

Brexiters had no idea what they were voting for, that is increasingly obvious. Sadly, they were either daft, ignorant, or both.

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Now let me see, there were only two questions as I recall on the ballot paper, 'Remain a member of the European Union'

'Leave the European Union', just because you got them mixed up, don't blame those who voted to leave

Ahh a good old sweeping generalisation, mixed with insults, yeah that sure is a way to prove your point.

No, because I never said "well" above, that's entirely your invention and shows Maths isn't your strong point as you'd expect there to be roughly a Normal Distribution.


We do, indeed that's what we've been doing. Whilst in the EU. All this waffle about trade deals never culminates in any actual tangible benefit.

Link?

So all those third party companies still operate successfully.

I think that might be the same leaflet which also said the governemnt would take us out in the event of a leave vote? And that was a statement, not an example.

So why do you think leaving the EU will change anything for the better? Won't big business dictate still?

And are you saying you want to see steel, agriculture and car making virtually disappear from the UK as they surely would without protective tariffs.

Iceland are out of the EU.

Now your splitting hairs Trolling for the sake of it.

How do you expect to export more to a group of countries with low growth compared to those with greater growth.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/publicat...omic-prospects

I have no idea I don't work there anymore.

If you ask people a load of questions about what they want they'll answer. It doesn't necessarily mean they think all options are possible in conjunction with each other.

If a pollster asked me if I was in favour of the EU paying me £1 million on leaving the EU I'd answer yes, that doesn't mean I think it's likely to happen.

Someone doesn't share your opinion let's start throwing insults around.

Another one on a lofty perch.

Yeah, right, trying to deliberately misrepresent what I said and got caught out.

I don't, I expected to continue as we are now in the EU, growing our exports to the EU and growing them more to outside the EU.

Well if you didn't vote to leave to end FoM or to end EU law taking precedence over UK law or to end EU budget contributions it begs the question why did you vote to leave. My view would be you ticked the wrong box by mistake.

It must be nice to be soo very in the wrong, yet still be looking down on people I guess!

You really won't. If the worst does happen, and we end up in world war 3 and struggling to pay for bread and jam, then you'll also feel the terrible effects. Only a sadist would be laughing then. Unless you've followed through on your bold promise to leave the UK in the event of Brexit, in which case why would you care anyway?

I believe that's called "checkmate"

Well done on proving the point

When are you people going to learn to stop sneering and start talking? Please, keep it up, it works for us.

"You people"??? What sort of "people" or "person" am I??

I did not deliberately misrepresent you.

I said that the average EU growth rate was low and you said there were countries above the average. Well that's obvious. And I countered that there were countries below. That's how averages work. Give an example of an average when there aren't items above and below it (not including if they are all identical)?

No, you dishonestly inserted "well" before below and then presented that as an example of my logic.

I said above and you said "well below" and presented it as my logic.