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Fiddling the system while working how common is this?


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Old 07-12-2016, 06:47
1manonthebog
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I'm curious how common this is, I might be naive but I didn't think this happened.

I was talking to an in law yesterday, he told me he earns £2k per month self employed. He apparently only declares £800 of it, why I asked? To reduce his tax bill and so his wife can claim tax credits and the rest of the perks such as free school dinners, free dental care etc. It then gets better, he tells me his Mrs who only works 16 hours per week only declares 5 hours.

You ****s I thought. There I am working 40 hours per week for minimum wage which is less than half of what your earning per month and we get damn all. We get some child tax credits but damn all else.

It's made me wonder how common this type of scamming is?
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:12
Jane Doh!
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No idea how common it is but if you know someone is breaking the law, report them.
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:20
1manonthebog
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No idea how common it is but if you know someone is breaking the law, report them.
Yes that would help family relations. I would love to though as it angers me.
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:23
Jane Doh!
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Yes that would help family relations. I would love to though as it angers me.
You don't have to tell them you're doing it! You can report them anonymously.
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:25
soulboy77
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Anyone who gets paid in cash still or has a mainly cash business can hide their full earnings from the taxman. Cleaners of private houses, market stall traders, taxi drivers and self-employed building trades all have the opportunity. A plasterer once said to me, as long as you give the taxman something then they are happy!
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:46
razorback Tony
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I'm curious how common this is, I might be naive but I didn't think this happened.

I was talking to an in law yesterday, he told me he earns £2k per month self employed. He apparently only declares £800 of it, why I asked? To reduce his tax bill and so his wife can claim tax credits and the rest of the perks such as free school dinners, free dental care etc. It then gets better, he tells me his Mrs who only works 16 hours per week only declares 5 hours.

You ****s I thought. There I am working 40 hours per week for minimum wage which is less than half of what your earning per month and we get damn all. We get some child tax credits but damn all else.

It's made me wonder how common this type of scamming is?
About as common as the sun rising every day.
A lot of people will read your OP, and identify YOU as the mug, not me though I hasten to add.
For the few years that I was self-employed I lied through my teeth about my actual income, guided with a few pointers from my accountant, who advised me on places to put money that were virtually no go areas for the tax man, all perfectly legal, just little loopholes that the government were too blind to see, or didn't care about.
His staple advice was, don't get greedy, keep it small.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:13
cessna
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I'm curious how common this is, I might be naive but I didn't think this happened.

I was talking to an in law yesterday, he told me he earns £2k per month self employed. He apparently only declares £800 of it, why I asked? To reduce his tax bill and so his wife can claim tax credits and the rest of the perks such as free school dinners, free dental care etc. It then gets better, he tells me his Mrs who only works 16 hours per week only declares 5 hours.

You ****s I thought. There I am working 40 hours per week for minimum wage which is less than half of what your earning per month and we get damn all. We get some child tax credits but damn all else.

It's made me wonder how common this type of scamming is?
>>>>

Yes its wrong - especially as the Govt badly need tax avoidance to fund housing benefits for terrorists planning to blow up or kill us according to latest news reports.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:23
mushymanrob
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im self employed, and i dont think anyone who gets paid cash declares every penny.

but the op's in-laws are treading very dangerously by fiddling that much. you cant earn £2k a month and only declare 40% of it without it becoming obvious to tax inspectors, who look at your standard of living to estimate how much you earn.

so if you are living in a house worth x amount, driving a car worth x amount, buying goods worth x amount, they can, and do, estimate what you are earning. if this tallies, theyll probably look no further, but if the standard of living youre enjoying seems higher then all declared income they will investigate, and prosecute.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:30
Elvisfan4eva
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im self employed, and i dont think anyone who gets paid cash declares every penny.

but the op's in-laws are treading very dangerously by fiddling that much. you cant earn £2k a month and only declare 40% of it without it becoming obvious to tax inspectors, who look at your standard of living to estimate how much you earn.

so if you are living in a house worth x amount, driving a car worth x amount, buying goods worth x amount, they can, and do, estimate what you are earning. if this tallies, theyll probably look no further, but if the standard of living youre enjoying seems higher then all declared income they will investigate, and prosecute.
They'd have to PROVE it though as an estimate of income just wouldn't stand up in court and what a person buys doesn't prove what a person is earning necessarily. They may have private means or generous parents or something.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:33
Elvisfan4eva
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You don't have to tell them you're doing it! You can report them anonymously.
Of course they'd know who's done it when he's talked abuut it to this relative! Not hard to work out who has snitched. I'd keep my nose out OP. Live and let live. You only had to watch that recent Ch5. series to know there's scams and cheating going on everywhere all the time.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:39
soma_
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I'm curious how common this is, I might be naive but I didn't think this happened.

I was talking to an in law yesterday, he told me he earns £2k per month self employed. He apparently only declares £800 of it, why I asked? To reduce his tax bill and so his wife can claim tax credits and the rest of the perks such as free school dinners, free dental care etc. It then gets better, he tells me his Mrs who only works 16 hours per week only declares 5 hours.

You ****s I thought. There I am working 40 hours per week for minimum wage which is less than half of what your earning per month and we get damn all. We get some child tax credits but damn all else.

It's made me wonder how common this type of scamming is?
tax avoidance is big in the uk, think of all those offshore registered businesses that corporates and wealthy utilise. its estimated to be up to £100 billion (some say minimum of around £30 billion).

in terms of a % of benefits bill the cost of fraud and government errors its around 0.7% of the total.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:43
soma_
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>>>>

Yes its wrong - especially as the Govt badly need tax avoidance to fund housing benefits for terrorists planning to blow up or kill us according to latest news reports.
unlikely. this story serves a political agenda rather than it being a reality despite the court claiming otherwise.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:00
Ben_Copland
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Instead of complaining, do what they're doing. Your employers are obviously diddling you, they're just going around about it a different way and diddling any of their employers.

I'm like you, work 40 a week for shit wages, over 4 different sites but where's the use in me crying because someone knows how to get around stuff? Fair play to them I say.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:01
Richievilla
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The latest HMRC estimate for unpaid tax from the "hidden economy" (for 2014/15), which is defined as "sources of income earned from the sale of goods or services, which have not been declared for tax purposes", is £6.2bn pa. To put that into perspective, total benefit fraud is estimated by the DWP (using the same methodology as HMRC) to be £1.6bn pa (for 2015/16). So to answer the OP, yes it is a huge problem, but one that is very difficult to solve.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:17
stackman
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Just remember it is a double-edged sword. If your in-laws wants to apply for a loan, mortgage etc. he will have to do so on the basis of his declared income to HMRC.

This can severely reduce the scope for borrowing.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:30
RebelScum
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The latest HMRC estimate for unpaid tax from the "hidden economy" (for 2014/15), which is defined as "sources of income earned from the sale of goods or services, which have not been declared for tax purposes", is £6.2bn pa. To put that into perspective, total benefit fraud is estimated by the DWP (using the same methodology as HMRC) to be £1.6bn pa (for 2015/16). So to answer the OP, yes it is a huge problem, but one that is very difficult to solve.
HMRC office closures and dramatically reducing staff numbers certainly isn't the way to go about it.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:42
netcurtains
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I wouldn't let it worry me. It's the fat cats of this country who are fleecing us not the fella at the end of the street who earns a bit here and there without declaring it to get by.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:03
mushymanrob
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I wouldn't let it worry me. It's the fat cats of this country who are fleecing us not the fella at the end of the street who earns a bit here and there without declaring it to get by.
but you know its illegal for the working man to fiddle a few pounds whilst its perfectly ok for the fat cats to extort billions..
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:06
Harvey_Specter
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I'm curious how common this is, I might be naive but I didn't think this happened.

I was talking to an in law yesterday, he told me he earns £2k per month self employed. He apparently only declares £800 of it, why I asked? To reduce his tax bill and so his wife can claim tax credits and the rest of the perks such as free school dinners, free dental care etc. It then gets better, he tells me his Mrs who only works 16 hours per week only declares 5 hours.

You ****s I thought. There I am working 40 hours per week for minimum wage which is less than half of what your earning per month and we get damn all. We get some child tax credits but damn all else.

It's made me wonder how common this type of scamming is?
Unfortunately in my experience, very common.

People are ultimately selfish and do not care.

Report him.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:17
scottie2121
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They'd have to PROVE it though as an estimate of income just wouldn't stand up in court and what a person buys doesn't prove what a person is earning necessarily. They may have private means or generous parents or something.
If the matter was investigated then they would have to prove to HMRC they had private means or generous parents.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:18
scottie2121
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Of course they'd know who's done it when he's talked abuut it to this relative! Not hard to work out who has snitched. I'd keep my nose out OP. Live and let live. You only had to watch that recent Ch5. series to know there's scams and cheating going on everywhere all the time.
Someone like the OP describes has probably shared what he's doing with lots of other people with pride.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:28
GusGus
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HMRC office closures and dramatically reducing staff numbers certainly isn't the way to go about it.
And if you need to contact them you can do it on line, which they ignore, or by telephone at 60p per minute
Silly move by Chancellor Gordon Brown to reduce tax offices and staff, it's not wonder that people give up and fiddle their affairs
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:00
tim59
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Well its not a new thing, i would have said it was more of a problem in the past, as when there was only two forms of payment cash or cheque. but of cause with the big rise of self employed people this will increase the number of people doing things
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:01
morganb1611
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A couple of tradesmen fiddling their books to save a couple of thousand a year in tax is a drop in the ocean to what big business are 'legitimately' avoiding.

At least with cash businesses they are putting the money back into the British economy.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:15
Jane Doh!
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Of course they'd know who's done it when he's talked abuut it to this relative! Not hard to work out who has snitched. I'd keep my nose out OP. Live and let live. You only had to watch that recent Ch5. series to know there's scams and cheating going on everywhere all the time.
I disagree. They don't tell you that someone has snitched, as you call it. They can just do a review and when anomalies are recognised, they'll investigate everything.
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