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Is the plan to leave the EU or to destroy it?


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Old 07-12-2016, 14:14
peter05
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There is no pressure on you to stay. Any opposition to triggering Article 50 is coming entirely from within the UK, the rest of the EU want you to hurry up and get on with it.
That's true, we all say just go,if it takes you this long just to invoke article 50 my French grandchildren will be old by the time you go
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Old 07-12-2016, 14:22
Kiteview
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It's not a false either/ or, but simply what I believe will eventually happen. Your belief, of the EU just ticking along long term with the status quo after Brexit, might appeal to you, but seems the least likely option in my opinion.
But then again, unlike some Remainers on here, I don't expect GB to self-destruct post Brexit, just find a new, independent and prosperous path.
It is a false either/or since the sovereign member nations that make up the EU are no more committed to either of those options than our Parliament and Government are committed to either of the - equally false - either/or options that I presented for the UK.

And, by definition, the status quo will trundle along unless there is a major impetus to change it, and, while we can speculate endlessly about potential future impetii, there is no fundamental reason for us to believe in anything other than mild evolutionary change to the EU and/or the UK itself.
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Old 07-12-2016, 14:23
Mou Mou Land
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Ah it' must be an odd numbered week and therefore the UK is powerful enough to bring down the mighty EU. Only five more days and we enter an even numbered week where the UK reverts back to an insignificant group of islands in the North Atlantic. It's hard keeping up sometimes.
We seem to veer between being absolutely powerless in the great scheme of things, as we were told by all the Remain campaign saying we could not survive without the EU, to being the arch villain in having the power to bring about the destruction of the largest trading block in the world.
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Old 07-12-2016, 14:30
Kiteview
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Sorry, but the rest of Europe is watching and waiting, hence the hardline status taken by EU negotiators.
There is nothing hardline about pointing out that a non-member of a club doesn't get the benefits (or obligations) of club membership.

What's "hard line" about that?

More importantly, perhaps, what are you complaining about if you voted "Leave" in order to terminate our "club membership" of the EU? Were you stupid enough to believe the Leave politicians and think we'd get all the benefits of club membership and be treated as a club member after we tore up our club membership card and refused to pay the club membership fee?
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Old 07-12-2016, 14:30
Soyokaze
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We seem to veer between being absolutely powerless in the great scheme of things, as we were told by all the Remain campaign saying we could not survive without the EU, to being the arch villain in having the power to bring about the destruction of the largest trading block in the world.
Another Leaver myth. No remainer has claimed that the UK could not survive outside the EU. Only that it would be worse off being outside than it is being inside.
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Old 07-12-2016, 14:48
intoxication
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Utter delusion and arrogance. Other European countries are already free to leave any time they like, we don't need Britain to liberate us. Just mind your own business, get on with Brexit and let the rest of Europe get on with doing what they want.
lol pot, kettle, black.
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Old 07-12-2016, 14:48
Mou Mou Land
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Another Leaver myth. No remainer has claimed that the UK could not survive outside the EU. Only that it would be worse off being outside than it is being inside.
I have not seen the immediate worldwide recession that Osborne guaranteed us.
I am not 4,300 quid worse off within the first year of voting to leave.
World War 3 has not broken out.
Terrorism on the UK mainland has not increased because of reduced police links within Europe - to be honest, the French and German police/security services are a joke compared to ours and this was a stupid argument in the first place.

Armageddon was promised to be visited on us on the 24th if we voted to leave. The only countries in the grip of angst post Brexit are others in the EU, not us.

Why do you think that is?
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Old 07-12-2016, 14:56
Eurostar
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I have not seen the immediate worldwide recession that Osborne guaranteed us.
I am not 4,300 quid worse off within the first year of voting to leave.
World War 3 has not broken out.
Terrorism on the UK mainland has not increased because of reduced police links within Europe - to be honest, the French and German police/security services are a joke compared to ours and this was a stupid argument in the first place.

Armageddon was promised to be visited on us on the 24th if we voted to leave. The only countries in the grip of angst post Brexit are others in the EU, not us.

Why do you think that is?
The UK are still a full member of the EU with all benefits and responsibilities that go with it and are still trading away inside the Single Market. The first indicators of how Brexit might impact won't be felt until after Article 50 has been triggered.
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:07
TeeGee
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The prospect of having to create a separate trade deal with Romania and another 20 economic basket cases keeps me awake at night.
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:14
Mou Mou Land
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The UK are still a full member of the EU with all benefits and responsibilities that go with it and are still trading away inside the Single Market. The first indicators of how Brexit might impact won't be felt until after Article 50 has been triggered.
Which is not what was said, was it?
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:22
Eurostar
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Which is not what was said, was it?
Certainly, but forecasting economic trends is not an exact science. Predictions that the Leave vote would cause an immediate psychological shock so severe that it would spark off an immediate recession proved incorrect but this doesn't mean the UK are now in the clear and over the worst of Brexit.
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:24
Mr Oleo Strut
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I don't care about the EU because I think it brings it's ills upon itself, and is totally non self aware and non self critical. I hope we do well, however, and are not reduced to penury.

There do seem to be some remainers who are so angry at the referendum result that they apparently hope that the EU flourishes while we go down the pan.
Yes, the EU wreckers are out and about, obsessed with rhetoric and bile. But when using the wrecking ball there is a great danger - it will come back and smack you very firmly in the mouth if you let it. This is fast happening with the Brexit position, which is fast being exposed as deeply flawed. Fox, the discredited former defence secretary and his cronies Johnson and Davis, are being shown up as biased, bigoted, anti--EU, and hopeless, devious and clueless. And Mrs May is sounding increasingly incoherent.
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:25
batdude_uk1
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The prospect of having to create a separate trade deal with Romania and another 20 economic basket cases keeps me awake at night.
Really????

I suggest that is a lie, and an untruth.
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:25
Mou Mou Land
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Certainly, but forecasting economic trends is not an exact science. Predictions that the Leave vote would cause an immediate psychological shock so severe that it would spark off an immediate recession proved incorrect but this doesn't mean the UK are now in the clear and over the worst of Brexit.
In other words, a lie.
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:26
Mou Mou Land
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biased, bigoted, hopeless, devious and clueless.
Mirror, mirror.
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:41
Eurostar
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In other words, a lie.
An economic prediction or forecast can't be a lie nor can it be a truth as nobody knows what is actually going to happen.
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Old 07-12-2016, 15:43
Cheetah666
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In other words, a lie.
The only lie was told by Cameron when he said he was going to trigger Article 50 straight away if there was a leave vote. The economic forecasts were based on that lie, so you can hardly blame the economists for getting it wrong.
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Old 07-12-2016, 16:09
Mou Mou Land
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An economic prediction or forecast can't be a lie nor can it be a truth as nobody knows what is actually going to happen.
So why is the Remain side asking for predictions of what is going to happen?

And if nobody knows, why are they making predictions of what will happen if we leave?
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Old 07-12-2016, 16:28
Eurostar
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So why is the Remain side asking for predictions of what is going to happen?

And if nobody knows, why are they making predictions of what will happen if we leave?
They're taking an educated guess, as are the Leave side (which is why there are very divided opinions about what will happen post-Brexit).
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Old 07-12-2016, 16:41
Mou Mou Land
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They're taking an educated guess, as are the Leave side (which is why there are very divided opinions about what will happen post-Brexit).
So, both sides have no idea?
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Old 07-12-2016, 16:43
John146
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So, both sides have no idea?
^^^^^^^^^
This
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Old 07-12-2016, 16:48
Mou Mou Land
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So no one has any authority to talk on any deal at all.
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Old 07-12-2016, 16:56
MargMck
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So no one has any authority to talk on any deal at all.

Apparently, but it won't stop 50 plus new threads quoting some obscure "expert" on how GB will become a poverty-stricken, powerless wasteland during and after the negotiations.
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Old 07-12-2016, 17:26
John146
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So no one has any authority to talk on any deal at all.
Sorry, misunderstood, thought you were referring to FM's on DS.
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Old 07-12-2016, 17:31
Eurostar
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So, both sides have no idea?
You could say that yes, but if it a country were to walk away from the Single Market, they would be the ones taking a big risk.
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