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Why there should be a second referendum before March |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
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When there is obviously dissatisfaction in the country, then a referendum may be necessary. Once we've had it, though, that's it - it's up to politicians to sort out the fallout.
I demand a Union Flag on top of my petard. ![]() This isn't meant to be a divisive proposal - on the contrary. I probably shouldn't have put the 4th question on it - though if the majority truly did now want to remain, it would be crazy to carry on against the wishes of the public. Of course there is massive dissatisfaction. Not just with the result, but the way it is all heading. There's the bonehead mob, who love to sound big at their keyboards going "suck it up", but sensible folk surely realise that such a bitterly divided country isn't good for anyone. |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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The referendum on 23rd June has created more questions than answers. There was a fog of misinformation. The hairshirt gang claim it's a mandate for a highly damaging hard Brexit - and May seems to collude. The remainers are aghast at the prospect, and claim it is no such mandate.
The real truth is that nobody knows. Nobody knows what the majority would choose if it's between single market/FOM or hard Brexit. This is such a colossal issue it will be outrageous if either route is followed without further consultation. The consequences of either route should be spelled out - there would be another fog of misinformation no doubt, but the electorate is a bit more savvy after the 5 months of utter chaos. There should be the following options: 1) Remain in single market, contributions to be made, FOM maintained. 2) Leave the single market, and if no compromise can be achieved, on WTO terms. 3) Leave it totally to the Government's discretion 4) Let's call the whole thing off. It should be STV - voters can list in order of preference. If no option makes over 50%, second choices are redistributed until one does. Absolutely the most democratic way of doing it. The result would be binding. After the conclusion there would be no doubt whatsoever what the majority (of those who vote) want, and they would proceed with genuine public support. If we blindly storm ahead, it will ensure the country remains bitterly divided, with blame being thrown from side to side for the foreseeable future. This proposal would avoid that. I for one, would totally accept the result - even if it were the opposite of what I want. If you truly believe in democracy, then this is the only way to healing this open sore. I had a sore on the 23/6, but it cleared up after a few days. Can I suggest visiting a doctor if you still have an open sore after all this time? |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,632
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Apparently 48% is greater than 52% in 2016
Let's hope by end of March (just 15 or so weeks to go!) reality has struck home. |
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#29 |
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,660
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Any referendum would also need to include staying or leaving the customs unions which is far more pertinent to the UK's trade and prosperity than the single market.
But then again, who really understands the customs union? |
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#30 |
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 8,253
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Then you shall have one. Even if it's a Polish made petard
This isn't meant to be a divisive proposal - on the contrary. I probably shouldn't have put the 4th question on it - though if the majority truly did now want to remain, it would be crazy to carry on against the wishes of the public. Of course there is massive dissatisfaction. Not just with the result, but the way it is all heading. There's the bonehead mob, who love to sound big at their keyboards going "suck it up", but sensible folk surely realise that such a bitterly divided country isn't good for anyone. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7395811.html |
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#31 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,948
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Quote:
Apparently 48% is greater than 52% in 2016
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#32 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,632
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Quote:
Then you shall have one. Even if it's a Polish made petard
This isn't meant to be a divisive proposal - on the contrary. I probably shouldn't have put the 4th question on it - though if the majority truly did now want to remain, it would be crazy to carry on against the wishes of the public. Of course there is massive dissatisfaction. Not just with the result, but the way it is all heading. There's the bonehead mob, who love to sound big at their keyboards going "suck it up", but sensible folk surely realise that such a bitterly divided country isn't good for anyone. |
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#33 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,141
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I have no problem with business trying to exert some influence over policy when they have something to lose. It is only natural they should want to, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it in my mind. And I do not apply this thinking just to the current issues surrounding our exit from the EU. Business should be free to lobby government over any issue that is of sufficient importance to them.
![]() As for a referendum before March, that gives you 12 weeks + a government that couldn't organise a piss-up in the proverbial = not going to happen. |
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#34 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dark Satanic Mills
Posts: 4,809
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When did we become the thing we used to ridicule?
After voting for many years for MPs who ignored their constituents the general public (ill informed and uneducated) decided that this was their chance and seized it. We managed just fine without the EU and tens of thousand Romanian car washers contributing massively to economic growth, things, as a previous PM once said, can only get better.
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#35 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: mid west wales
Posts: 9,614
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how much will another referendum cost? Another £9 million wasted on propaganda and lies
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#36 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
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Any referendum would also need to include staying or leaving the customs unions which is far more pertinent to the UK's trade and prosperity than the single market.
But then again, who really understands the customs union? The point I'm making is that the consequences for the country vary massively dependent on what sort of Brexit happens. The referendum result was a crude answer to a crude question, and there is no mandate for any particular form of Brexit, as that question was not asked. It absolutely should be before we reach the point of no return. |
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#37 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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I'm sure they do, but a minority simply cannot accept what has happened so continue to try to divide the country.
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#38 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
Apparently 48% is greater than 52% in 2016
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#39 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Coventry
Posts: 6,989
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It's a bit baffling that the months before leading upto June 23rd, this was all virtually decided. Both sides said what they'd want to see/should happen depending on the result. Cameron and Osborne even said on national TV that we'd leave the single market if we voted to leave the EU.
And now here we all are moaning about if leaving means leaving the single market. On June 24th, it seemed very clear what was about to happen but unfortunately certain folk have muddled the water and now everyones arguing over what was already argued over for months and months. |
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#40 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,066
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sensible folk surely realise that such a bitterly divided country isn't good for anyone.
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I'm sure they do, but a minority simply cannot accept what has happened so continue to try to divide the country.
The only sensible thing is to accept that we are leaving the EU, get on with it, make the best of it, and stop hankering after things like second referendums, court cases which may stall the whole thing, hoping the Lib Dems suddenly win a landslide or any combination of the above. |
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#41 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,986
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I have an increasing feeling that we might have to face Battle for Brexit 2. I doubt it'll be a referendum. It could be a general election.
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#42 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Coventry
Posts: 6,989
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If there has to be a 2nd Referendum that Labour and other folk want then so be it, WITHOUT a remain option. The question was asked and answered.
"Should the United Kingdom: A) Accept the Government agreed deal with the European Union or B) Leave the European Union with no agreed deal" I'm sure this would bring a lot of people over to the Government's position as it would be closer to their own views. It would pretty much force a lot of folk to suddenly start backing their country instead of trying to divide it. |
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#43 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,875
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I'm happy for that.
I voted Leave to control of borders and everyone who I've asked who voted said the same thing. I've hardly met anyone Remainers because they are probably not all working class but rich EU-Luvies. And I think many more would vote to Leave on a higher percentage due to how some MP's are trying to destroy Brexit. Bring it on. |
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#44 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
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Quote:
If there has to be a 2nd Referendum that Labour and other folk want then so be it, WITHOUT a remain option. The question was asked and answered.
"Should the United Kingdom: A) Accept the Government agreed deal with the European Union or B) Leave the European Union with no agreed deal" I'm sure this would bring a lot of people over to the Government's position as it would be closer to their own views. It would pretty much force a lot of folk to suddenly start backing their country instead of trying to divide it. That wouldn't settle anything. |
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#45 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Leafy London
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Quote:
I'm happy for that.
I voted Leave to control of borders and everyone who I've asked who voted said the same thing. I've hardly met anyone Remainers because they are probably not all working class but rich EU-Luvies. And I think many more would vote to Leave on a higher percentage due to how some MP's are trying to destroy Brexit. Bring it on. |
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#46 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,592
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Quote:
Who really understood the question on the last ballot paper?
'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union?' You would have to be a bit thick not to understand that would you not? |
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#47 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Parliment Sq waving a banner
Posts: 3,286
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Quote:
The referendum on 23rd June has created more questions than answers. There was a fog of misinformation. The hairshirt gang claim it's a mandate for a highly damaging hard Brexit - and May seems to collude. The remainers are aghast at the prospect, and claim it is no such mandate.
The real truth is that nobody knows. Nobody knows what the majority would choose if it's between single market/FOM or hard Brexit. This is such a colossal issue it will be outrageous if either route is followed without further consultation. The consequences of either route should be spelled out - there would be another fog of misinformation no doubt, but the electorate is a bit more savvy after the 5 months of utter chaos. There should be the following options: 1) Remain in single market, contributions to be made, FOM maintained. 2) Leave the single market, and if no compromise can be achieved, on WTO terms. 3) Leave it totally to the Government's discretion 4) Let's call the whole thing off. It should be STV - voters can list in order of preference. If no option makes over 50%, second choices are redistributed until one does. Absolutely the most democratic way of doing it. The result would be binding. After the conclusion there would be no doubt whatsoever what the majority (of those who vote) want, and they would proceed with genuine public support. If we blindly storm ahead, it will ensure the country remains bitterly divided, with blame being thrown from side to side for the foreseeable future. This proposal would avoid that. I for one, would totally accept the result - even if it were the opposite of what I want. If you truly believe in democracy, then this is the only way to healing this open sore. I expect that is the last referendum they want to see on the subject. Plus your questions are nonsensical. |
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#48 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,215
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Would be a disgrace if there was a 2nd vote
People know that leaving the EU means you leave the single market, that is like the biggest point people were talking about during the referendum. |
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#49 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dark Satanic Mills
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#50 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Parliment Sq waving a banner
Posts: 3,286
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Quote:
Would be a disgrace if there was a 2nd vote
People know that leaving the EU means you leave the single market, that is like the biggest point people were talking about during the referendum. Did Cameron lie? ![]() I don't want the single market and FOM - most Leave voters, if not all do not want it either. |
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