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Why there should be a second referendum before March |
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#51 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,592
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Quote:
It takes two to divide.
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#52 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,307
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Quote:
Trevgo and Aurichie... what wonderful bedfellows you make, although it's nice to see Aurichie "quite calm" about what we face in the coming months.
But Trevgo... do you really think your muddled STV "referendum" with a binding result is fooling anyone? I'll just put it on the list of latest whacko ideas of "how to ultimately stop Brexit from happening while pretending we're actually only concerned about democracy." Anyway, carry on being one of Blair's "insurgents". |
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#53 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Parliment Sq waving a banner
Posts: 3,286
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Quote:
It takes two to divide.
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#54 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,099
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Quote:
Well done, you two, for drilling down yet again into the utter arrogance and stupidity of the Brexit position. With the increasing exposure of the nakedness and foolishness of the referendum comes the similar spectacular exposure of the deviousness and dictatorship of the May government, who only have contempt for Parliament and those who do not share their blinkered and shifty views. Fortunately, inch by inch, May is being stopped in her tracks and her slippery and discredited ministers and representatives dragged into Parliament, the Courts and before the public, and their duplicity exposed. I don't care if Brexiters are upset, they were daft enough to vote 'out' after a deluge of lies, so tough on them. We are not all empty-headed fools and bigots. Brexit must be dumped into the dustbin of politics, a failed coup, and the whole question of the UK's membership of the EU gone into properly and honestly, and either put to a second referendum or General Election. There is no other way.
Brilliant post. This should be pinned to the top of the politics forum and made required reading every day before anyone is allowed to post in here. |
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#55 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 15,094
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Quote:
Trevgo and Aurichie... what wonderful bedfellows you make, although it's nice to see Aurichie "quite calm" about what we face in the coming months.
But Trevgo... do you really think your muddled STV "referendum" with a binding result is fooling anyone? I'll just put it on the list of latest whacko ideas of "how to ultimately stop Brexit from happening while pretending we're actually only concerned about democracy." Anyway, carry on being one of Blair's "insurgents". |
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#56 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,099
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Quote:
whilst the leavers just staggered up to the voting booth.
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#57 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,204
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There won't be a second referendum.
/thread |
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#58 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Parliment Sq waving a banner
Posts: 3,286
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Quote:
Well done, you two, for drilling down yet again into the utter arrogance and stupidity of the Brexit position. With the increasing exposure of the nakedness and foolishness of the referendum comes the similar spectacular exposure of the deviousness and dictatorship of the May government, who only have contempt for Parliament and those who do not share their blinkered and shifty views. Fortunately, inch by inch, May is being stopped in her tracks and her slippery and discredited ministers and representatives dragged into Parliament, the Courts and before the public, and their duplicity exposed. I don't care if Brexiters are upset, they were daft enough to vote 'out' after a deluge of lies, so tough on them. We are not all empty-headed fools and bigots. Brexit must be dumped into the dustbin of politics, a failed coup, and the whole question of the UK's membership of the EU gone into properly and honestly, and either put to a second referendum or General Election. There is no other way.
Quote:
Brilliant post. This should be pinned to the top of the politics forum and made required reading every day before anyone is allowed to post in here.
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#59 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
Brilliant post. This should be pinned to the top of the politics forum and made required reading every day before anyone is allowed to post in here.
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#60 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
most of them did (not all of course) with their bigoted view of the world
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#61 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Parliment Sq waving a banner
Posts: 3,286
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Brilliant post. This should be pinned to the top of the politics forum and made required reading every day before anyone is allowed to post in here.
On this thread http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...5#post84818805 |
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#62 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 15,094
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Quote:
most of them did (not all of course) with their bigoted view of the world
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#63 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 15,094
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Quote:
Brilliant post. This should be pinned to the top of the politics forum and made required reading every day before anyone is allowed to post in here.
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#64 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,726
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Quote:
We are not leaving the single market. We are never going to have a referendum on that question. It is a complete non-starter as the economic fallout would be beyond devastating.
We could (and probably should) rejoin at the earliest opportunity once we have left the EU however that will mean accepting FoM and other rules which are part of the treaty obligations between the EU and EAA. |
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#65 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Nothing like making sweeping generalisations about 52 percent of the electorate by those who are intolerant of anyone who does not agree with them.
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Do you ever get dizzy from that pedestal you sit on?
![]() I agree with you Nin! |
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#66 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 348
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Quote:
The referendum on 23rd June has created more questions than answers. There was a fog of misinformation. The hairshirt gang claim it's a mandate for a highly damaging hard Brexit - and May seems to collude. The remainers are aghast at the prospect, and claim it is no such mandate.
The real truth is that nobody knows. Nobody knows what the majority would choose if it's between single market/FOM or hard Brexit. This is such a colossal issue it will be outrageous if either route is followed without further consultation. The consequences of either route should be spelled out - there would be another fog of misinformation no doubt, but the electorate is a bit more savvy after the 5 months of utter chaos. There should be the following options: 1) Remain in single market, contributions to be made, FOM maintained. 2) Leave the single market, and if no compromise can be achieved, on WTO terms. 3) Leave it totally to the Government's discretion 4) Let's call the whole thing off. It should be STV - voters can list in order of preference. If no option makes over 50%, second choices are redistributed until one does. Absolutely the most democratic way of doing it. The result would be binding. After the conclusion there would be no doubt whatsoever what the majority (of those who vote) want, and they would proceed with genuine public support. If we blindly storm ahead, it will ensure the country remains bitterly divided, with blame being thrown from side to side for the foreseeable future. This proposal would avoid that. I for one, would totally accept the result - even if it were the opposite of what I want. If you truly believe in democracy, then this is the only way to healing this open sore. From the point of view of the powers that be, we got it wrong on June 23rd and as a result it will be a very long time before the electorate of this country is trusted with another referendum. I suspect we only got this one because no one thought leave could win. |
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#67 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 348
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It really comes down to a question of whether you believe the Conservatives are going to ignore big business and all the lobbying going on at the moment and pull us out of the single market, or will they remain true to their beliefs and do what is best for business and best for Britain? If they go for the former option then it'll be like turkeys voting for Christmas because they will lose a lot of financial support and backing from people they need.
You also shouldn't be surprised that I trust a Tory government given I am a life-long Conservative voter. ![]() I just recognise Theresa May is in a very tough spot right now. She needs to act tough and lose some battles so she can demonstrate to the brexiteers in her own party she at least fought their good fight and lost. It's the only chance she has of remaining prime minister once the hardline brexiteers on the backbenches see what deal we're going for (they won't like it). The Supreme Court appeal is an utter embarrassment how poorly it is going. But I am convinced they want to lose just show it's another fight on their battle card. That can be the only sensible explanation in my mind. But they are doing such a poor job that it's hard to even put this in the battle we fought and lost column right now. |
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#68 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,501
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Quote:
Which bit of the following did you not understand?
'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union?' You would have to be a bit thick not to understand that would you not? This is why it is confusing to see comments like "everyone knows voting leave meant also leaving the Single Market", "leaving the EU but keeping X things in place means EU-lite so contradicts the result", or "people voted leave to stop FOM so that must be stopped". None of those things were on the ballot paper. That is very easy to understand. When the Lib Dems reversed their position on tuition fees their MPs didn't immediately lose their seats because the ballot paper didn't mention tuition fees. It meant promises were broken, and that voters had believed their vote may lead to certain outcomes. The actual vote was for X candidate. Nothing more. So the MPs kept their seats (until the next election obviously). Regardless of the EU ref campaigners also making a variety of claims or pledges at different times, the vote was just about EU membership. Nothing more. |
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#69 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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We had a referendum, and we got a conclusive result, why on earth can people not see this??
Why the calls for yet another one on the very same topic, madness! |
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#70 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,591
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Quote:
The referendum on 23rd June has created more questions than answers. There was a fog of misinformation. The hairshirt gang claim it's a mandate for a highly damaging hard Brexit - and May seems to collude. The remainers are aghast at the prospect, and claim it is no such mandate.
The real truth is that nobody knows. Nobody knows what the majority would choose if it's between single market/FOM or hard Brexit. This is such a colossal issue it will be outrageous if either route is followed without further consultation. The consequences of either route should be spelled out - there would be another fog of misinformation no doubt, but the electorate is a bit more savvy after the 5 months of utter chaos. There should be the following options: 1) Remain in single market, contributions to be made, FOM maintained. 2) Leave the single market, and if no compromise can be achieved, on WTO terms. 3) Leave it totally to the Government's discretion 4) Let's call the whole thing off. It should be STV - voters can list in order of preference. If no option makes over 50%, second choices are redistributed until one does. Absolutely the most democratic way of doing it. The result would be binding. After the conclusion there would be no doubt whatsoever what the majority (of those who vote) want, and they would proceed with genuine public support. If we blindly storm ahead, it will ensure the country remains bitterly divided, with blame being thrown from side to side for the foreseeable future. This proposal would avoid that. I for one, would totally accept the result - even if it were the opposite of what I want. If you truly believe in democracy, then this is the only way to healing this open sore. |
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#71 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,422
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Quote:
We had a referendum, and we got a conclusive result, why on earth can people not see this??
Why the calls for yet another one on the very same topic, madness! |
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#72 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mount Olympus
Posts: 18,230
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There should be another referendum when the deal is on the table, not before.
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#73 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
It wouldn't be on the same topic though. It would be on whether to accept a particular deal we'd made with the EU. If we did have one, I would want it to be on whether to accept that deal, or leave the EU without any deal. I wouldn't want another Leave/Remain choice.
It just seems to be people wanting another referendum only because the results didn't go the way that they wished/hoped/expected. |
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#74 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
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Quote:
There should be another referendum when the deal is on the table, not before.
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#75 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Black Country lad in Yorkshire
Posts: 118,029
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The remain people carefully spelt out what a vote to leave would mean..
The people voted to leave. It is the job of the government to get on with it. It is the job of MPs to support the result. |
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