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Brexiteers : more aggressive than Remainers ?
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el_bardos
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by molliepops:
“I can't see triggering article 50 having a calming effect, only thing will calm it down is when we know what is going to happen”

On the contrary, that’s the exact point at which people will realise the simple question they voted on in the referendum won’t necessarily translate into what they actually wanted in the real world, and things will kick off all over again with renewed vigour – because there is literally no way to keep everyone happy even within the leave camp, let alone doing enough to placate the 48% as well.
Doctor_Wibble
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by molliepops:
“Although if that isn't racist what is ? Only Eastern Europeans are able to work incoffee shops and do cleaning jobs ? That sounds racist to me ”

I think you'll find it's not considered racist if it's done by governments using economics to 'guide' such things and encourage the views and situations which mean that the evil locals can't afford to take the jobs but the lovely visitors can, and that's how you end up with the moral justification for exploiting desperate people from poor countries and at the same time get a load of people to feel either guilty or annoyed or both and as an added bonus create yet another group of people who will have a go at anyone who even looks like they might be thinking of raising an eyebrow at this innovative method of sending funds to help fix former communist countries.

TLDR Spin spin spin

But to be clear, I'm not about to blame anyone for taking up a legitimate opportunity.
jjwales
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by gamzattiwoo:
“Gina Miller was not trying to clarify the British constitution she cares not one jot about it. The woman thinks she is entitled to question the result of the most democratic vote we have ever had in this country, backed by others of course.”

She is entitled to do anything she wants, within the law.
DadDancer
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by jjwales:
“She is entitled to do anything she wants, within the law.”

and we are entitled to criticise her. All she has achieved is to create more anger and resentment and also give false hopes to some remainers that the result can somehow be overturned by a technicality. A pointless waste of time and money
molliepops
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by el_bardos:
“On the contrary, that’s the exact point at which people will realise the simple question they voted on in the referendum won’t necessarily translate into what they actually wanted in the real world, and things will kick off all over again with renewed vigour – because there is literally no way to keep everyone happy even within the leave camp, let alone doing enough to placate the 48% as well.”

It's not helped by people being promised deals etc, I voted out to me that meant out no ties to eu at all. But back peddling is now looking like deals may be done so we have one foot in and the other out. That won't make anyone happy IMO in or out.
alan29
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by DadDancer:
“and we are entitled to criticise her. All she has achieved is to create more anger and resentment and also give false hopes to some remainers that the result can somehow be overturned by a technicality. A pointless waste of time and money”

I would rather have the law clarified now rather than have someone say "Hang on a minute, lets go to court" half way through the negotiations. And I'm a remainer.
MARTYM8
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by jjwales:
“She is entitled to do anything she wants, within the law.”

If you are backed by millionaire hedge fund owners the law is very much available to you. Unlike voting where their vote counts the same as everyone else.

I bet Lord Pannick doesn't come cheap!
zx50
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by molliepops:
“I can't see triggering article 50 having a calming effect, only thing will calm it down is when we know what is going to happen, much of the population is plain and simple scared because they have no idea what the landscape will look like after brexit. I have to admit I'm more nervous now than when I voted because listening to remainers put the country down tell me we can't do well without hard working immigrant labour, That we are lazy stupid and unable to make our country work. It's started to affect my mood as i am now wondering is my family only Brits who are working hard and willing to do those jobs immigrants are apparently uniquely willing to do.

Although if that isn't racist what is ? Only Eastern Europeans are able to work incoffee shops and do cleaning jobs ? That sounds racist to me ”

The trouble is each side was only interested in painting a good picture of their argument. Neither side gave only facts and left their bias out of it. Either of two things will happen. One, things will go from bad to worse after Brexit finally happens and this will mean that the Remain camp were right all along. Two, the UK's economy will start becoming richer and richer and the Remain camp will have turned out to be wrong. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see who was right.
MARTYM8
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by zx50:
“The trouble is each side was only interested in painting a good picture of their argument. Neither side gave only facts and left their bias out of it. Either of two things will happen. One, things will go from bad to worse after Brexit finally happens and this will mean that the Remain camp were right all along. Two, the UK's economy will start becoming richer and richer and the Remain camp will have turned out to be wrong. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see who was right.”

We had the greatest economic crash in 70 years in 2008 while members of the EU. Was that entirely the fault of the EU - no.

There will be many other factors that influence the future of our economy - cos we live in a global world now not a little Eurooean one.
el_bardos
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by molliepops:
“It's not helped by people being promised deals etc, I voted out to me that meant out no ties to eu at all. But back peddling is now looking like deals may be done so we have one foot in and the other out. That won't make anyone happy IMO in or out.”

When 40-50% of our business is done with the EU, the idea of having ‘no ties’ was never realistic, though. Over time we might be able to move more to the US/China or wherever else, but as it stands we are hugely reliant on the EU to maintain economic stability in the short term. Hence all these idea of “them needing us more than we need them” is nonsense, and prospects of being able to negotiate a deal where we don’t have to accept things like freedom of movement, or significant contributions and acceptance of existing trade rules are pretty non-existent. The question is where we compromise, and wherever that is… someone won’t be happy.

This is not something we've found out after the referendum, it was all stated beforehand. It just doesn't really condense down into a nice sound bite to be thrown around as ammunition against the other side of the debate.
molliepops
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by zx50:
“The trouble is each side was only interested in painting a good picture of their argument. Neither side gave only facts and left their bias out of it. Either of two things will happen. One, things will go from bad to worse after Brexit finally happens and this will mean that the Remain camp were right all along. Two, the UK's economy will start becoming richer and richer and the Remain camp will have turned out to be wrong. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see who was right.”

And the biggest problem as I see it is we won't really be able to say if we had stayed in or any other deal was struck that things would have been any better or any worse. What I am seeing though and not liking is politicians and others lbc presenters you know who you are, putting us down so we don't even try !
CSJB
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by el_bardos:
“When 40-50% of our business is done with the EU, the idea of having ‘no ties’ was never realistic, though. Over time we might be able to move more to the US/China or wherever else, but as it stands we are hugely reliant on the EU to maintain economic stability in the short term. Hence all these idea of “them needing us more than we need them” is nonsense, and prospects of being able to negotiate a deal where we don’t have to accept things like freedom of movement, or significant contributions and acceptance of existing trade rules are pretty non-existent. The question is where we compromise, and wherever that is… someone won’t be happy.

This is not something we've found out after the referendum, it was all stated beforehand. It just doesn't really condense down into a nice sound bite to be thrown around as ammunition against the other side of the debate.”

Where are you getting your figures from ?
The vast majority of our businesses cater for the home market only.
Only 28% of our goods and services are exported and only 44% of that goes to the EU.
Boo Radley75
08-12-2016
I find them a very confused bunch, banging on about giving UK parliament and law more power and now they've suddenly done a massive u turn on that and don't want it after all. They seem to just like to get angry a lot from what I've seen.
el_bardos
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by CSJB:
“Where are you getting your figures from ?
The vast majority of our businesses cater for the home market only.
Only 28% of our goods and services are exported and only 44% of that goes to the EU.”

I missed out the word "non-domestic", but that should have been pretty obvious from context.
DianaFire
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“If you are backed by millionaire hedge fund owners the law is very much available to you. Unlike voting where their vote counts the same as everyone else.

I bet Lord Pannick doesn't come cheap!”

ISTR that the law firm took this on pro bono. Also, Gina Miller isn't a hedge fund manager.
Doctor_Wibble
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by DianaFire:
“ISTR that the law firm took this on pro bono. .”

They got paid in dog food?
MinnieMinz
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by jjwales:
“She is entitled to do anything she wants, within the law.”

She's ignoring the opinion of half the country as it doesn't suit her. I am sure were the roles reversed she would be one of those shouting loudest that her way won, and would be denying others the opportunity she has been given.
Girth
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by MinnieMinz:
“She's ignoring the opinion of half the country as it doesn't suit her.”

So what?
Quote:
“ I am sure were the roles reversed she would be one of those shouting loudest that her way won, and would be denying others the opportunity she has been given.”

Pure speculation. And how would she deny them? She would have no more power to stop them than you or I have now to stop her.
MinnieMinz
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Girth:
“So what? Pure speculation. And how would she deny them? She would have no more power to stop them than you or I have now to stop her.”

So what? I have an opinion and I'm voicing (or rather) typing it. If you have nothing constructive to add apart from petty comments, don't bother replying.
RobinOfLoxley
08-12-2016
Not all the country voted
Girth
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by MinnieMinz:
“So what? I have an opinion and I'm voicing (or rather) typing it. If you have nothing constructive to add apart from petty comments, don't bother replying.”

So I'm not allowed to have my opinion on your opinion? Stop whining and answer the questions.
MinnieMinz
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Girth:
“So I'm not allowed to have my opinion on your opinion? Stop whining and answer the questions.”

Where am I whining? I will say your initial post was rude,and this one ruder. If you can't be civil, please don't bother. Don't demand from me either when you are so rude.
Girth
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by MinnieMinz:
“Where am I whining? I will say your initial post was rude,and this one ruder. If you can't be civil, please don't bother. Don't demand from me either when you are so rude.”

I thought this was a discussion board, not a place for MinnieMinz to voice their opinion unchallenged. Point out where I was rude and I will apologize.
MinnieMinz
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Girth:
“I thought this was a discussion board, not a place for MinnieMinz to voice their opinion unchallenged. Point out where I was rude and I will apologize.”

I didn't say you couldn't challenge my opinion. I said you were rude. "so what" and "stop whining" are both rude. You also said I don't expect to be challenged this isn't "my" place type of thing, more rudeness. Please don't bother replying again, I won't be as I cannot be bothered with such arsyness.
Girth
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by MinnieMinz:
“I didn't say you couldn't challenge my opinion. I said you were rude. "so what" and "stop whining" are both rude. Please don't bother replying again, I won't be as I cannot be bothered with such arsyness.”

Don't tell me what I can and can't reply to. I apologize for the 'whining' comment, that was a bit much. I stand by the 'so what'.
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