|
||||||||
Respecting the 48 per cent |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#276 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,581
|
Quote:
Who believed that World War 3 would break out,
Quote:
that we'd be £4300 worse off (not just "poorer" but specifically £4300 poorer),
If we exit the EU on WTO terms we might yet be.Quote:
or that we'd be able to control the numbers of incoming migrants from the EU by staying in? That last one is as we don't control the number of migrants from outside the EU as well, net they're greater than from the EU.
Laughable. |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#277 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,581
|
Quote:
d
It was a slogan, not a particularly sophisticated one but one of many used despite the way Remainers fixate on it. but it reminded people that a huge amount of money goes to the EU etc etc. the official Leave campaign may have made mistakes -who doesn't in a political campaign, have you never seen one before? They're politicians! But obviously they made more impact in total than Remain which was deliberately trying to scare the life out of every section of the general public with it's OTT doom and damnation. If they'd just been less obviously out to terrify people, so much so it got laughable, and relied on being remotely positive about their beloved EU they may well have won. |
|
|
|
|
|
#278 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 279
|
Quote:
What, researched Prof Niall's position?
Anyway, he might change his mind again tomorrow. In the meantime you can ignore what's happening and happily fiddle with your various trade agreement scenarios whilst Rome burns before your own eyes. People like you are so fixated on the position of the UK in the current EU that you are blind to voters across the continent clamouring for a change to the EU. |
|
|
|
|
|
#279 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,334
|
Quote:
The figure wasn't a mistake, it was a lie.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#280 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,581
|
Quote:
I certainly never accused you of that. If you'd bothered to do any research you would have come across this quote from him: "Issue was not GDP but future migration."
In the meantime you can ignore what's happening and happily fiddle with your various trade agreement scenarios whilst Rome burns before your own eyes. People like you are so fixated on the position of the UK in the current EU that you are blind to voters across the continent clamouring for a change to the EU. That's the "part of the equation" leavers ignore. |
|
|
|
|
|
#281 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12,766
|
Quote:
But I've addressed the migration situation. Pretty much every day I have to point out that, despite the promise 6 years ago that May would get non EU migration down to "tens of thousands", net non EU migration is higher than EU.
That's the "part of the equation" leavers ignore. |
|
|
|
|
|
#282 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,581
|
Quote:
It is not ignoring it it is observing it. The first step is leave the EU to place our borders fully in our control, then elect a government that will fully control those borders. That is the democratic process. Many have observed the Tories but also have observed Labour. Labour dramatically increased non EU immigration, the Tories have been unable/unwilling to reduce it.
Labour got voted back in twice after increasing non EU immigration, people didn't care then. |
|
|
|
|
|
#283 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,746
|
Quote:
It is not ignoring it it is observing it. The first step is leave the EU to place our borders fully in our control, then elect a government that will fully control those borders. That is the democratic process. Many have observed the Tories but also have observed Labour. Labour dramatically increased non EU immigration, the Tories have been unable/unwilling to reduce it.
Currently over a billion people have the right to visit the UK without visa. How are you going to "control" them? Are we really under threat from Japanese people on holiday? |
|
|
|
|
|
#284 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,853
|
Quote:
Has anyone from Team Leave explained what "fully controlling our borders" actually means? Do you want a hard border with the Republic or Ireland, compulsory visas and background checks for holiday makers, day trippers and business travellers?
Currently over a billion people have the right to visit the UK without visa. How are you going to "control" them? Are we really under threat from Japanese people on holiday? People who see mass uncontrolled immigration from other EU nations as a problem or mass immigration of Muslims or mass immigration of non-Whites as a problem, hope the government would then be able and willing to respond to their concerns. As to your particular questions outside the EU a customs border would exist between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Freedom of movement of people with the Republic of Ireland would however remain. Tourists and business visitors from other EU nations would go back to pre Maastricht treaty which in most cases means visa free travel to the UK. |
|
|
|
|
|
#285 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,746
|
Quote:
As to your particular questions outside the EU a customs border would exist between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Freedom of movement of people with the Republic of Ireland would however remain. Tourists and business visitors from other EU nations would go back to pre Maastricht treaty which in most cases means visa free travel to the UK.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#286 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,334
|
Almost six months on and Remainers can hold their heads high. The shambles that is Brexit is unraveling daily before our eyes and will continue to do so. The ignorance, stupidity, bigotry and lies that resulted in the referendum decision will haunt our nation forever, unless the nonsense of Brexit is stopped.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#287 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 8,267
|
Quote:
Almost six months on and Remainers can hold their heads high. The shambles that is Brexit is unraveling daily before our eyes and will continue to do so. The ignorance, stupidity, bigotry and lies that resulted in the referendum decision will haunt our nation forever, unless the nonsense of Brexit is stopped.
I wouldn't hold your breath waiting, Theresa repeated in Brussels that we are leaving the EU http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...n-crisis-EU-27 |
|
|
|
|
|
#288 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Isle of Dogs
Posts: 2,157
|
Quote:
Almost six months on and Remainers can hold their heads high. The shambles that is Brexit is unraveling daily before our eyes and will continue to do so. The ignorance, stupidity, bigotry and lies that resulted in the referendum decision will haunt our nation forever, unless the nonsense of Brexit is stopped.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#289 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,581
|
Quote:
We are in a period of phoney-war at the moment, you will need to wait until February/March next year when Brexit will really kick-off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#290 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,650
|
The 48% have shown no respect whatsoever to the 52%, either before or after the referendum. The country has been run for the benefit of a minority for far too long now, same as in the US, which is why we have Trump, and why we have Brexit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#291 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,520
|
Quote:
The 48% have shown no respect whatsoever to the 52%, either before or after the referendum. The country has been run for the benefit of a minority for far too long now, same as in the US, which is why we have Trump, and why we have Brexit.
http://www.economist.com/news/books-...ecome-obsessed elite financiers tanked the global economy, elite economists failed to foresee it and political elites failed to respond effectively enough. Those elites in the crosshairs had to find other elites to blame, and they did so. Elite scientists and Hollywood liberals whining about climate change cost coalminers their jobs. Elite London journalists noshing on sushi ignore the problems that hard-working northern Brits suffer as a result of immigration. Cultural elites police what can be said about minorities. And so on. But the rush to blame elites has nearly everyone in the crosshairs: Sketch Engine, a digital tool for lexicographers, finds among the common modifiers for elite not just obvious ones like “ruling”, “wealthy”, “monied”, but also “secular”, “cultural”, “educated”, “metropolitan” and “bureaucratic”. Elites are no longer “the choice part or flower” of a group, but merely anyone in a position of influence someone else thinks they do not deserve. |
|
|
|
|
|
#292 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,650
|
Even if that is true, do you think that things could have been done differently in the past so that a large proportion of the country weren't so peed off with the EU and the "elites"? Globalisation and the EU have benefitted some people at the expense of others, and the others outnumber the beneficiaries. Which is why we have Brexit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#293 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,581
|
Quote:
Even if that is true, do you think that things could have been done differently in the past so that a large proportion of the country weren't so peed off with the EU and the "elites"? Globalisation and the EU have benefitted some people at the expense of others, and the others outnumber the beneficiaries. Which is why we have Brexit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#294 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,746
|
Quote:
Even if that is true, do you think that things could have been done differently in the past so that a large proportion of the country weren't so peed off with the EU and the "elites"? Globalisation and the EU have benefitted some people at the expense of others, and the others outnumber the beneficiaries. Which is why we have Brexit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#295 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 279
|
Quote:
But I've addressed the migration situation. Pretty much every day I have to point out that, despite the promise 6 years ago that May would get non EU migration down to "tens of thousands", net non EU migration is higher than EU.
That's the "part of the equation" leavers ignore. |
|
|
|
|
|
#296 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,581
|
Quote:
I just used that as an example of what the "Islamophobe" (your words)
Quote:
Ferguson was actually saying about his changed views on Brexit. He was once an avid Remain supporter
Hmmm, so having tried to lecture me on mot researching properly you've not even read much beyond the headline of your own link; from the second paragraph:“It is one of the few times in my life that I’ve argued something without wholly believing it,” Quote:
but, since the vote, has changed his mind. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to repeat this, but I think the big mistake Remainers are making is in believing that the terms of Brexit are going to be conducted within an EU structure which is equivalent to the one we see now. Thusfar there have two votes, one in the UK and the other in Italy where the electorate would have been considered mad to vote against the motion, but they both have, despite the obvious perils. You seem to be absolutely unaware that there is an anti-establishment sentiment amongst voters which isn't even an organised movement (Yet. Please don't mention UKIP. One MP, not Nigel Farage says enough), but the masses will continue to vote against an establishment which they feel isn't serving their best interests.
52-48 doesn't represent "the masses" just slightly more of "the masses" than not.Quote:
There is an overwhelming feeling of the privileged lining their own coffers at the sufferance of the ordinary person. In the meantime we have votes coming up in 2017 in the Netherlands, France and Germany. I can see at least one, maybe two of those going the same way. And all you seem to want to talk about in the meantime is the everyday minutua.
The ongoing damage to the economy of the UK for no discernible benefit isn't "minutia" to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#297 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,759
|
Quote:
Er, where did I use that word?
Hmmm, so having tried to lecture me on mot researching properly you've not even read much beyond the headline of your own link; from the second paragraph: “It is one of the few times in my life that I’ve argued something without wholly believing it,” 52-48 doesn't represent "the masses" just slightly more of "the masses" than not. The ongoing damage to the economy of the UK for no discernible benefit isn't "minutia" to me. 52% beats 48% in any way you live to turn the numbers around....theres 100 people and 52% of them fancy a curry and 48% of them fancy a burger and chips guess where the Saturday night crowd are going for the post beer food! |
|
|
|
|
|
#298 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,581
|
Quote:
At what point would you of accepted the referendum? 60/70/90/101%?
52% beats 48% in any way you live to turn the numbers around....theres 100 people and 52% of them fancy a curry and 48% of them fancy a burger and chips guess where the Saturday night crowd are going for the post beer food! |
|
|
|
|
|
#299 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 279
|
Quote:
Er, where did I use that word?
Hmmm, so having tried to lecture me on mot researching properly you've not even read much beyond the headline of your own link; from the second paragraph: “It is one of the few times in my life that I’ve argued something without wholly believing it,” 52-48 doesn't represent "the masses" just slightly more of "the masses" than not. The ongoing damage to the economy of the UK for no discernible benefit isn't "minutia" to me. |
|
|
|
|
|
#300 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,759
|
Quote:
But not for ever and ever.
|
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:41.



