|
||||||||
MPs have voted in favour of the Government's timetable to trigger Article 50 by March |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#26 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18,881
|
Quote:
It has been partly caused by there being virtually zero clarification on what people were voting for last June. People voted for Leave without having a clue whether this meant the UK would end up inside or outside the Single Market / EEA etc.
|
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#27 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 27,888
|
Quote:
Oh yes they will. There is no way they are going to let UK government lie to its public that they haven't accepted FOM by calling it something else.. What matters to EU is their population and what they think. The last thing they want is for UK to be seen to have a deal that is as good as their population have.
The proposals: (hypothetically); The EU says we can have have membership of the single market, but we have to accept Freedom of movement for a £4 billion fee. The UK realises that trade and business is vital to the economy and reluctantly agrees to FOM but agrees with EU negotiators to rename it in order to appease other country's who also share concerns about it. That way, EU nations realise Britain has been forced into accepting that they don't want but the ordinary joe public across the EU believe some kind of compromise on FOM has been made for everyone across the EU. Why would the EU care what it is called if it surmounts to the same thing? |
|
|
|
|
|
#28 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 76,812
|
Quote:
Britain was here before the people were! It's all about the economy stupid!
![]() the 'best Brexit' for small business isn't the same as the 'best Brexit' for the City of London or for big businesses that export a lot to the EU that's before we even get to non-business interests there are several possible Brexit outcomes.......none of them will be 'best' for everyone. Some will be happy, some won't........... |
|
|
|
|
|
#29 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 27,888
|
Quote:
But the 65 million people don't all have the same economic interests
the 'best Brexit' for small business isn't the same as the 'best Brexit' for the City of London or for big businesses that export a lot to the EU that's before we even get to non-business interests there are several possible Brexit outcomes.......none of them will be 'best' for everyone. Some will be happy, some won't...........
|
|
|
|
|
|
#30 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Parliment Sq waving a banner
Posts: 3,289
|
Quote:
Leave the EU means we're outside the EU Single Market. How many more times FGS?
Especially the Remainers because David Cameron used it in his Remain campaign if you vote Leave it means we will leave the Single Market! Did they not believe their own campaigners! |
|
|
|
|
|
#31 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,592
|
Quote:
You really do think the EU is some kind of sacred cow don't you?
The proposals: (hypothetically); The EU says we can have have membership of the single market, but we have to accept Freedom of movement for a £4 billion fee. The UK realises that trade and business is vital to the economy and reluctantly agrees to FOM but agrees with EU negotiators to rename it in order to appease other country's who also share concerns about it. That way, EU nations realise Britain has been forced into accepting that they don't want but the ordinary joe public across the EU believe some kind of compromise on FOM has been made for everyone across the EU. Why would the EU care what it is called if it surmounts to the same thing? |
|
|
|
|
|
#32 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 76,812
|
Quote:
Welcome to democracy!
![]() how can there be a 'best for Britain' when we democratically don't agree on what the 'best' is it'll be the best for some people but not for others we/they/the country can't agree on what is 'best'.........there is no 'best' that is 'best' for everyone ! |
|
|
|
|
|
#33 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 76,812
|
Quote:
Yes it does not sure why people don't get this.
Especially the Remainers because David Cameron used it in his Remain campaign if you vote Leave it means we will leave the Single Market! Did they not believe their own campaigners! If she just says 'we're leaving the single market' then all the guff about negotiations disappears because there's nothing to negotiate..........do you think the EU will negotiate to try and get us to stay in once we've said we're leaving ? |
|
|
|
|
|
#34 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Newport Pagnell
Posts: 21,350
|
Quote:
Was never really in doubt. Why the government bothered to appeal the court decision is beyond me.
Anyway have certain posters booked their flights/ferries out of the country yet? So why hasn't this vote tonight made the High Court case irrelevant now if MP's have overwhelmingly accepted Article 50 should be enacted by 31st March 2017? |
|
|
|
|
|
#35 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,592
|
Quote:
Yes it does not sure why people don't get this.
Especially the Remainers because David Cameron used it in his Remain campaign if you vote Leave it means we will leave the Single Market! Did they not believe their own campaigners! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCghi2rVaWY |
|
|
|
|
|
#36 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,592
|
Quote:
Which is why I am a bit confused at this vote tonight. The BBC is reporting it as "MP's vote to respect the Government's plan to trigger Article 50 by the end of March, meaning the UK will leave the EU by early 2019", which is what I would expect.
So why hasn't this vote tonight made the High Court case irrelevant now if MP's have overwhelmingly accepted Article 50 should be enacted by 31st March 2017? |
|
|
|
|
|
#37 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 216
|
Quote:
Which is why I am a bit confused at this vote tonight. The BBC is reporting it as "MP's vote to respect the Government's plan to trigger Article 50 by the end of March, meaning the UK will leave the EU by early 2019", which is what I would expect.
So why hasn't this vote tonight made the High Court case irrelevant now if MP's have overwhelmingly accepted Article 50 should be enacted by 31st March 2017? I honestly don't think she has a clue. |
|
|
|
|
|
#38 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,650
|
Quote:
so.......you agree that some will be happy and some won't
how can there be a 'best for Britain' when we democratically don't agree on what the 'best' is it'll be the best for some people but not for others we/they/the country can't agree on what is 'best'.........there is no 'best' that is 'best' for everyone ! The claim that 30% or so of the electorate didn't vote, so the result cannot be considered to be a democratic majority, is nonsense. The electorate in total, always has the opportunity to vote - and just as it is in a General Election, those that choose not to vote can ONLY be considered as 'abstainers' - and therefore not particularly bothered over the outcome. |
|
|
|
|
|
#39 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Parliment Sq waving a banner
Posts: 3,289
|
Quote:
Which is why I am a bit confused at this vote tonight. The BBC is reporting it as "MP's vote to respect the Government's plan to trigger Article 50 by the end of March, meaning the UK will leave the EU by early 2019", which is what I would expect.
So why hasn't this vote tonight made the High Court case irrelevant now if MP's have overwhelmingly accepted Article 50 should be enacted by 31st March 2017? |
|
|
|
|
|
#40 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,637
|
Quote:
so.......you agree that some will be happy and some won't
how can there be a 'best for Britain' when we democratically don't agree on what the 'best' is it'll be the best for some people but not for others we/they/the country can't agree on what is 'best'.........there is no 'best' that is 'best' for everyone ! Every now again all the grown ups get asked what do you want, we have to choose a) or b)? A choice is made and that's what happens. What is best for everyone is that, regardless of any result, we abide by democratic results. So we have democratically agreed on what the 'best' is... just as we did in 1975 when I voted No but lost the vote and just as we did when the Tories got an overall majority. Neither are results I liked, but results they are. |
|
|
|
|
|
#41 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 76,812
|
Quote:
Irrelevant - What we can, and have produced via democratic action, is established that the will of the majority of voters wish the UK to leave the EU.
The claim that 30% or so of the electorate didn't vote, so the result cannot be considered to be a democratic majority, is nonsense. The electorate in total, always has the opportunity to vote - and just as it is in a General Election, those that choose not to vote can ONLY be considered as 'abstainers' - and therefore not particularly bothered over the outcome. we were debating the concept of there being an outcome that was 'Best For Britain'...... |
|
|
|
|
|
#42 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,650
|
Quote:
Which is why I am a bit confused at this vote tonight. The BBC is reporting it as "MP's vote to respect the Government's plan to trigger Article 50 by the end of March, meaning the UK will leave the EU by early 2019", which is what I would expect.
So why hasn't this vote tonight made the High Court case irrelevant now if MP's have overwhelmingly accepted Article 50 should be enacted by 31st March 2017? |
|
|
|
|
|
#43 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Newport Pagnell
Posts: 21,350
|
Quote:
Actually there is.
Every now again all the grown ups get asked what do you want, we have to choose a) or b)? A choice is made and that's what happens. What is best for everyone is that, regardless of any result, we abide by democratic results. So we have democratically agreed on what the 'best' is... just as we did in 1975 when I voted No but lost the vote and just as we did when the Tories got an overall majority. Neither are results I liked, but results they are. |
|
|
|
|
|
#44 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 76,812
|
Quote:
Actually there is.
Every now again all the grown ups get asked what do you want, we have to choose a) or b)? A choice is made and that's what happens. What is best for everyone is that, regardless of any result, we abide by democratic results. So we have democratically agreed on what the 'best' is... just as we did in 1975 when I voted No but lost the vote and just as we did when the Tories got an overall majority. Neither are results I liked, but results they are. but it's diverting from the original point about 'Britain' having a best outcome whatever the outcome might be will be the best for some but not the best for others because we all have different interests........'Britain' as such doesn't have an interest outside of the people who live here and who have a multitude of 'best' outcomes |
|
|
|
|
|
#45 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 76,812
|
Quote:
Which is why I am a bit confused at this vote tonight. The BBC is reporting it as "MP's vote to respect the Government's plan to trigger Article 50 by the end of March, meaning the UK will leave the EU by early 2019", which is what I would expect.
So why hasn't this vote tonight made the High Court case irrelevant now if MP's have overwhelmingly accepted Article 50 should be enacted by 31st March 2017? But the Court case is about more than that........it's also hearing submissions from the devolved assemblies and has to clarify the Law relating to use of royal prerogative which will provide a precedent for the future |
|
|
|
|
|
#46 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Coventry
Posts: 6,990
|
Good News but the Supreme Court might still give the middle finger to the public still unfortunately. There's also no point tying the Governments hands by forcing them to stay in the Single Market (or anything else).
If the EU knew the Government absolutely had to agree to something, they could basically say "you have to accept X,Y,Z and pay us £X a year and allow X,Y,Z in order to stay in that" and we couldn't say no. I'm all for Labour suggesting things we should go for but not locking a position in. |
|
|
|
|
|
#47 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Newport Pagnell
Posts: 21,350
|
Quote:
well I suppose that tonight's vote has made the Government's case in Court that Parliament shouldn't vote on triggering Article 50 look rather stupid.
But the Court case is about more than that........it's also hearing submissions from the devolved assemblies and has to clarify the Law relating to use of royal prerogative which will provide a precedent for the future |
|
|
|
|
|
#48 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,650
|
Quote:
that's not what wizzy and I were discussing though
we were debating the concept of there being an outcome that was 'Best For Britain'...... |
|
|
|
|
|
#49 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Storbritannia
Posts: 28,921
|
Quote:
Good News but the Supreme Court might still give the middle finger to the public still unfortunately. There's also no point tying the Governments hands by forcing them to stay in the Single Market (or anything else).
If the EU knew the Government absolutely had to agree to something, they could basically say "you have to accept X,Y,Z and pay us £X a year and allow X,Y,Z in order to stay in that" and we couldn't say no. I'm all for Labour suggesting things we should go for but not locking a position in. This is case is ultimately not about Brexit (despite the totally misleading espoo in the Sun, Mail, Express and Telegraph). It is about how the government is proceeding about things (and it could have been any subject, not just Brexit) and whether the government is exceeding its constitutional powers as defined by law and precedent. |
|
|
|
|
|
#50 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Newport Pagnell
Posts: 21,350
|
Quote:
That is a fundamental misunderstanding about what is actually happening in the Supreme Court right now.
This is case is ultimately not about Brexit (despite the totally misleading espoo in the Sun, Mail, Express and Telegraph). It is about how the government is proceeding about things (and it could have been any subject, not just Brexit) and whether the government is exceeding its constitutional powers as defined by law and precedent. |
|
|
|
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 23:28.




