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MPs have voted in favour of the Government's timetable to trigger Article 50 by March


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Old 08-12-2016, 12:27
alan29
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So May and co come up with a plan. Parliament mulls it over and either tweaks it a bit or doesn't.
They trigger A50 and the clock starts ticking.
They reject our plan.
What cards do we have left .... we are leaving anyway inside two years no matter what.
Seems like it doesn't matter what May or MPs say, the ticking clock removes our bargaining power totally.
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:30
Aurora13
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No. Miller voted Remain. She is on record talking a "The Week" reporter that when she heard the result she "felt sick to the stomach" and that her son persuaded her to "do something about it" and that she isn't trying to thwart Brexit by the back door because "she doesn't do anything by the back door".

Dos Santos claimed to have voted remain back in July but has now apparently changed that statement to say he voted Leave. We will never know. Seems odd to me that someone would vote Leave and then try and get the Government who is capable of carrying out the leave verdict to be potentially blocked from doing what you voted for! I will take his "I voted leave" comments with a pinch of salt.
When will you get it that the court cases aren't about blocking the referendum vote. I know Daily Mail and Express have been spinning lies but enough people on here have explained.

As an aside Head of IPSA the press regulation body on Sky earlier taking about fake stories. It came up that Mail has been referred to them around these court case/judge articles. He more a less said action will be taken.

Talked about our democracy being at stake with false story reporting.
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:33
HR Guru
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So May and co come up with a plan. Parliament mulls it over and either tweaks it a bit or doesn't.
They trigger A50 and the clock starts ticking.
They reject our plan.
What cards do we have left .... we are leaving anyway inside two years no matter what.
Seems like it doesn't matter what May or MPs say, the ticking clock removes our bargaining power totally.
We don't have any cards in the first place. There is only a limited amount of options. It's all a bluff by May and the three stooges to keep the masses placated.

No FoM means we can take part in the CU (which is the bare minimum the majority of Parliament wants). We might be able to get a few more concession such as free access to the single market and some kind of passporting by committing to paying into the pot and because we have some security/military "cards" we can play to our advantage.
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:33
Kiteview
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That was the said at Tory Conference and the pound crashed. It's crept back up in basis that UK isn't going for that deal. If it comes back the pound will be below 1.20 this time.
I am unsure which deal you are referring to. Do you mean the "hardest of hard" Brexit option that seemed to be in vogue at their conference?
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:34
HR Guru
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When will get it that the court cases aren't about blocking the referendum vote. I know Daily Mail and Express have been spinning lies but enough people on here have explained.

As an aside Head of IPSA the press regulation body on Sky earlier taking about fake stories. It came up that Mail has been referred to them around these court case/judge articles. He more a less said action will be taken.
No surprise considering it has been proven that out of all Leave voters, 70% read the Express as their main source of news and 60% the Daily Mail.
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:34
andykn
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Yet another bitter and divisive post from you and you have a cheek to start a thread about how the Country can unite?
Well, it would be bitter and divisive were it not hilariously ill-informed and inaccurate.
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:39
Kiteview
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... because we have some security/military "cards" we can play to our advantage.
Actually we don't even have them since the rather large minority of militarily non-aligned EU member states aren't going to tolerate any attempt at us doing so. Their line, as I understand it, is very much "NATO business should be done in NATO", so unless we want to try and b@£&er up NATO with Brexit, those cards are pretty much moot.
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Old 08-12-2016, 15:32
panixs
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No surprise considering it has been proven that out of all Leave voters, 70% read the Express as their main source of news and 60% the Daily Mail.
You do realise that adds up to 130% dont you?
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Old 08-12-2016, 15:40
CLL Dodge
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You do realise that adds up to 130% dont you?
30% could read both.

I read neither and voted Leave.
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Old 08-12-2016, 15:44
Jayceef1
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30% could read both.

I read neither and voted Leave.
He did say their "main" source. So couldn't be both.
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Old 08-12-2016, 15:50
onecitizen
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So May and co come up with a plan. Parliament mulls it over and either tweaks it a bit or doesn't.
They trigger A50 and the clock starts ticking.
They reject our plan.
What cards do we have left .... we are leaving anyway inside two years no matter what.
Seems like it doesn't matter what May or MPs say, the ticking clock removes our bargaining power totally.
It won't be easy but the major EU countries will always want access to the UK markets, whether its French farmers or German car makers etc. So to say its all one sided is wrong.
We do import more from them than we export to them. It makes sense if both sides can approach the forthcoming brexit negotiations with realistic expectations. I wouldn't be surprised if we wind up with a "Canada plus" style deal.
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Old 08-12-2016, 15:52
onecitizen
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30% could read both.

I read neither and voted Leave.
I very much doubt any two newspapers have a combined readership of 17 million.
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Old 08-12-2016, 15:53
HR Guru
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He did say their "main" source. So couldn't be both.
Blame NatCen for their wording. The question to over 30,000 people was "which newspaper do you read most often"

Out of all Leave voters polled it was 70% Express, 70% Sun, 66% Mail.
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Old 08-12-2016, 16:18
onecitizen
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We don't have any cards in the first place. There is only a limited amount of options. It's all a bluff by May and the three stooges to keep the masses placated.

No FoM means we can take part in the CU (which is the bare minimum the majority of Parliament wants). We might be able to get a few more concession such as free access to the single market and some kind of passporting by committing to paying into the pot and because we have some security/military "cards" we can play to our advantage.
We also import a lot of products from the EU and they won't want to ruin an important export market for themselves.
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Old 08-12-2016, 16:21
HR Guru
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We also import a lot of products from the EU and they won't want to ruin an important export market for themselves.
Not this old chestnut. We do not have the infrastructure to carry out customs checks, they do. We do rely on parts coming to our factories, they do much less.

Also we would have to conduct custom checks on all imported goods the same way. We don't have any FTAs so have to play by the WTO rules.
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Old 08-12-2016, 16:40
Irritable Owl
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Not this old chestnut. We do not have the infrastructure to carry out customs checks, they do. We do rely on parts coming to our factories, they do much less.

Also we would have to conduct custom checks on all imported goods the same way. We don't have any FTAs so have to play by the WTO rules.
is it really beyond the capacity of the UK to expand its customs checking facilities, if necessary?

I mean, we've got 2 years to set this up.
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Old 08-12-2016, 16:48
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is it really beyond the capacity of the UK to expand its customs checking facilities, if necessary?

I mean, we've got 2 years to set this up.
Yes. There is no land at Dover or Folkestone whatsoever. Also why would you pay billions to build the facilities just to then hardly use them a few years later once you've agreed the countless of FTAs you can get so easily?
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Old 08-12-2016, 16:54
onecitizen
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Not this old chestnut. We do not have the infrastructure to carry out customs checks, they do. We do rely on parts coming to our factories, they do much less.

Also we would have to conduct custom checks on all imported goods the same way. We don't have any FTAs so have to play by the WTO rules.
That's why its of benefit to both them and us to have a decent agreement which helps their exporters to us and our exporters and businesses which deal in Europe.
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Old 08-12-2016, 17:33
Jayceef1
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Blame NatCen for their wording. The question to over 30,000 people was "which newspaper do you read most often"

Out of all Leave voters polled it was 70% Express, 70% Sun, 66% Mail.
No wonder the polls have been so wrong lately if that's their methodology.
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Old 08-12-2016, 17:45
Eurostar
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Blame NatCen for their wording. The question to over 30,000 people was "which newspaper do you read most often"

Out of all Leave voters polled it was 70% Express, 70% Sun, 66% Mail.
To clarify, it was 70% of Express readers voted Leave, 70% of Sun readers also voted Leave etc.
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Old 08-12-2016, 17:54
Radlestort
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Dos Santos claimed to have voted remain back in July but has now apparently changed that statement to say he voted Leave. We will never know. Seems odd to me that someone would vote Leave and then try and get the Government who is capable of carrying out the leave verdict to be potentially blocked from doing what you voted for! I will take his "I voted leave" comments with a pinch of salt.
Possibly he did not like the way it was being implemented?

You will recall that Stephen Phillips, a Conservative MP who voted Leave, resigned his seat because the government were trying to ush it through without consulting parliament.
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Old 08-12-2016, 18:33
Forza Ferrari
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I'm fed up with all this hard/soft Brexit jargon. Why don't we just aim to get the "best" Brexit for Britain?
You mean none of course.
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Old 08-12-2016, 18:38
wizzywick
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Possibly he did not like the way it was being implemented?

You will recall that Stephen Phillips, a Conservative MP who voted Leave, resigned his seat because the government were trying to ush it through without consulting parliament.
Nope. The MP left because he believed himself to be more important than he was. Some people have changed their stories as often as people change their knickers. If you voted leave on 23rd June, there's no way come early July - just a week after, you'd take legal action against the people who are able to carry out your wishes. No way whatsoever.

What would be the point of voting Leave in a once in a lifetime referendum just to have that opportunity at risk of being stopped? You'd wait until the negotiations had started before campaigning for a better deal. It's like Turkey's being spared from a Christmas slaughter but then getting slaughtered anyway!
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Old 08-12-2016, 19:16
luckylegs
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We don't have any cards in the first place. There is only a limited amount of options. It's all a bluff by May and the three stooges to keep the masses placated.

No FoM means we can take part in the CU (which is the bare minimum the majority of Parliament wants). We might be able to get a few more concession such as free access to the single market and some kind of passporting by committing to paying into the pot and because we have some security/military "cards" we can play to our advantage.
If you honestly believe that I suggest you have no faith in this country or this government so it is probably best you leave for better climes.

Climes that can fulfill your idea of utopia of a trading block that will suffice for you.
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Old 08-12-2016, 21:45
andykn
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If you honestly believe that I suggest you have no faith in this country or this government so it is probably best you leave for better climes.

Climes that can fulfill your idea of utopia of a trading block that will suffice for you.
Just because you've damaged it doesn't mean we want to leave.
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