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Police shooting - Polish style
That username
07-12-2016
Following the Mark Duggan shooting thread I thought I post a police shooting from Poland.

Polish Police Shooting
Tassium
07-12-2016
Next on Five, 'Worlds Wackiest Slayings!'
Pitman
07-12-2016
the news is mocking the police for not just sticking a bullet in his head ?
razorback Tony
07-12-2016
Originally Posted by Pitman:
“the news is mocking the police for not just sticking a bullet in his head ? ”


I think the cops were being mocked because they probably couldn't put one in his head if he was standing still at 10cms. away.
Fizzbin
07-12-2016
A career as an Imperial Stormtrooper awaits...
WhatJoeThinks
07-12-2016
Originally Posted by razorback Tony:
“I think the cops were being mocked because they probably couldn't put one in his head if he was standing still at 10cms. away.”

You think? They managed one in the leg from several feet away. Do you honestly think they 'missed' his torso?
RobinOfLoxley
07-12-2016
I went through a phase of Paintballing and it's surprising how even good players will repeatedly miss at a distance of 6 feet (myself included)

You both miss with your fisrt shot and are recocking and both miss on the second. It's farcical sometimes.

Then again, you can be 'killed' 30 seconds into a 30 minute game.

War is horrible in real life.
muggins14
07-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“You think? They managed one in the leg from several feet away. Do you honestly think they 'missed' his torso?”

Indeed; I didn't think they were trying to shoot him, just firing warning shots as in a 'beware I have a gun' kind of way
Jellied Eel
07-12-2016
Hmm.. I suspect 'fake news'. US can view Poles the same way as Brits and Irish. But how many shots do we hear? Not 15.. and in slowmo, it doesn't appear to show that either. The female officer did seem to switch her aimpoint from centre mass to the guy's legs though.
That username
08-12-2016
It would be interesting what would happen if this was in the UK, no doubt there would be investigations and the police officers would be suspended.

Sure there would be a media outcry with the victim on TV complaining about police brutality and some solicitor taking legal action.
RobinOfLoxley
08-12-2016
I did notice the long Mark Duggan thread here, but only dipped in an out and didn't post any comments.

I watched the BBC Panorama docu the other night and it did raise/re-iterate some disturbing questions.

As an outsider, I can't tell what was the truth of what happened.
Maxatoria
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by That username:
“It would be interesting what would happen if this was in the UK, no doubt there would be investigations and the police officers would be suspended.

Sure there would be a media outcry with the victim on TV complaining about police brutality and some solicitor taking legal action.”

Given a police officer has to account for every action from drawing their weapon to actually firing a shot is why they're very rarely used as the paperwork must be massive for a firearms copper.

Our top police firearms units are trained to special forces level as the SAS etc don't fancy being on camera when doing their work like at the embassy.

The general thing is to shoot center of mass and neutralize them as quickly as possible or if they have the possibility of being able to flick a switch etc a double tap to the spine in the neck area to ensure no chance of being able to press it.
dyslexic nick
08-12-2016
Here is the Taiwan version over 50 shots to stop a car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCfXZfSH6Qk
GusGus
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“You think? They managed one in the leg from several feet away. Do you honestly think they 'missed' his torso?”


I've always wondered why our highly trained police marksman do not shoot to disarm rather than kill
spkx
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by GusGus:
“I've always wondered why our highly trained police marksman do not shoot to disarm rather than kill”

Because perfectly shooting a weapon out of someone's hand first time is something that only happens in movies.
Maxatoria
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by GusGus:
“I've always wondered why our highly trained police marksman do not shoot to disarm rather than kill”

By the time you need to pull the trigger it is game over shall we say and who knows what someone with an injury can still cause, the aim of the game is to secure the area and prevent harm to the general public.
TrollHunter
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by spkx:
“Because perfectly shooting a weapon out of someone's hand first time is something that only happens in movies.”

They don't have to be that precise. Shooting the 'perps' thumbs off is all that's needed to prevent them firing back at them.
WhatJoeThinks
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Maxatoria:
“Given a police officer has to account for every action from drawing their weapon to actually firing a shot is why they're very rarely used as the paperwork must be massive for a firearms copper.

Our top police firearms units are trained to special forces level as the SAS etc don't fancy being on camera when doing their work like at the embassy.

The general thing is to shoot center of mass and neutralize them as quickly as possible or if they have the possibility of being able to flick a switch etc a double tap to the spine in the neck area to ensure no chance of being able to press it.”

In case you didn't watch the video, we're talking about a shouty man armed with a stick. If at least some of the story is to be believed, he had been smashing cars up. You don't 'neutralize' somebody for smashing cars up!

It's unclear why the officers didn't have some intermediate weapon between batons and firearms, like pepper spray or a tazer. Or maybe they had pepper sprayed him, who knows?

What I think is perfectly clear is that the 'reporter' is talking rubbish, and that the officers were using warning shots to stop him coming closer to them, and they only shot him in the leg to stop him fleeing.
Jellied Eel
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“
It's unclear why the officers didn't have some intermediate weapon between batons and firearms, like pepper spray or a tazer.”

Odd thought. Weather effects on tazers, ie cold=person bundled up in layers of clothing making it harder for darts to penetrate. At least here, the fashion for baggy trousers gives our officers a clear cheek to aim for.
Jason100
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Tassium:
“Next on Five, 'Worlds Wackiest Slayings!'”

But first Poles on the Dole...
WhatJoeThinks
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jellied Eel:
“Odd thought. Weather effects on tazers, ie cold=person bundled up in layers of clothing making it harder for darts to penetrate. At least here, the fashion for baggy trousers gives our officers a clear cheek to aim for.”

I don't even know if they use tazers at all, it was just a suggestion. In the UK, for example, I think they'd have pepper spray. And pepper spray might have been more effective than warning shots in that situation.

[Edit] ..Ah, you meant odd thought about the tazer to the buttock.
Monkey_Moo
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by GusGus:
“I've always wondered why our highly trained police marksman do not shoot to disarm rather than kill”

Because, as said above, this is not the movies. Shooting a moving hand from a distance in not only virtually impossible, it makes the situation much more dangerous as the likelihood of failure is so massively high that person will then start firing or bolt.

The police do not shoot to kill in the UK, they shoot to 'stop'. The main body mass is targeted because it stops people (bullets pass through limbs and they can continue to pull the trigger or run) and it's easy to hit. Once the decision is made to stop that person, wether they die or not at that point is irrelevant. However, as soon as they are stopped the police must ceasefire and provide medical attention.
Jellied Eel
08-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“[Edit] ..Ah, you meant odd thought about the tazer to the buttock. ”

Nah, that would be whether you could use the laser dots on the new tazers to bring new meaning to 'through and through'. However amusing it may be, aiming for the dingleberries would probably be considered cruel and unusual punishment though, even if Darwin might chuckle.

There is a video somewhere on YT where a marksman with a rifle did manage to shoot a pistol from a suspect's hands.. but that kind of trick shot is discouraged. Like MM says, the objective is to stop the aggressor. And there's also plenty of YT vids where a single or multiple pistol shots don't do that.
Monkey_Moo
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jellied Eel:
“There is a video somewhere on YT where a marksman with a rifle did manage to shoot a pistol from a suspect's hands.. but that kind of trick shot is discouraged. Like MM says, the objective is to stop the aggressor. And there's also plenty of YT vids where a single or multiple pistol shots don't do that.”

Yes, ask anyone who has been involved in serious warfare in iraq etc - many soldiers have taken shots to arms and legs, or have shot enemies limbs, and were able to continue using their weapon to some degree. That leaves head and body. Problem with head is that it's much harder to hit than a body, and also that it means certain death (which is not the aim). That said, head shots maybe the only option and some counterterrorist officer do train for head shots in certain circumstances (bomb vests).
Jellied Eel
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Monkey_Moo:
“Yes, ask anyone who has been involved in serious warfare in iraq etc - many soldiers have taken shots to arms and legs, or have shot enemies limbs, and were able to continue using their weapon to some degree. That leaves head and body.”

Indeed. Like you said previously, I think people's perceptions are distorted by movies. Reality is sadly rather different.

This video is NSFW and GRAPHIC, contains scenes that most viewers should find disturbing-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEoMUu5frRQ

UPDATE: The man in the white shirt was the head of Interpol in this region, and died of the wounds he received

Both the robber and the officer continued to be a threat, despite having been shot.
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