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After Brexit: How Do We Go About Uniting The Nation?


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Old 08-12-2016, 10:23
alan29
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Get everyone to learn the words of Rule Britannia.
That should do it.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:25
Granny McSmith
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I have no desire to heal the wounds.

I simply want the leave side to either fix this problem without breaking the country, or prepare for the backlash.
I'm sure they would love to. Let's hope the remain side don't interfere too much while they're trying to do just that, and kybosh the whole thing.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:26
jmclaugh
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That rather assumes it was united before and I rather doubt such a question would be asked if the result had been remain.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:28
allaorta
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I'm sure they would love to. Let's hope the remain side don't interfere too much while they're trying to do just that, and kybosh the whole thing.
You can't use words like that, it shows you're old enough to be one of the close-to-death Brexiters.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:35
Granny McSmith
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You can't use words like that, it shows you're old enough to be one of the close-to-death Brexiters.
Does no one use "kybosh" any more? There isn't really a satisfactory synonym.

I grew up in a Jewish area, and these old words pepper my conversation. Remainers should stop kvetching.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:38
voteout
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I'm sure they would love to. Let's hope the remain side don't interfere too much while they're trying to do just that, and kybosh the whole thing.
I agree. I despair when looking at the remoaners who want to stop the process. Let it happen, don't put barriers in its way, and crush those responsible when it fails.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:40
grassmarket
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I grew up in a Jewish area, and these old words pepper my conversation. Remainers should stop kvetching.
They have well and truly verkackt themselves. Oi vey!
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:41
Hazy Davy
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I think the underlying cause is globalisation and in particular China putting hundreds of millions of people on the world wide jobs market at a pay rate that meant much of the work that could go to China did go to China. That suppressed the wages for those jobs that couldn't go. In order to invest their money and enable us to pay for their goods the Chinese lent the money back to us which led to the rising cost of property as it was the best asset for it to be secured against.

This led to a nation of people some of whom think they have a bright future as it hasn't directly effected their livelihood yet and some that don't.

In the context of the referendum it led to a lot of people wanting a protectionist policy on the labour market (control of our borders) so wages on the jobs that couldn't be exported might rise and terms might improve, such as a move away from zero hours contracts.

In many ways the same is happening in USA (hence the vote for Trump and his protectionist ideas) and with possibly India putting more people onto the international labour market, with China moving towards a more knowledge based economy and AI coming down the track it doesn't necessarily come to an end anytime soon.

So the underlying causes of the split are with us for some years and I think that the main problem is that neither the politicians nor anyone else knows the answers. I know we all think that the politicians take the 'I'm alright Jack' approach but I think that they genuinely don't know the solutions. And not just UK politicians.

Even Mark Carney was talking about this earlier in the week but provided no ideas on what can be done about it.

I know the above sounds like we are all getting poorer etc but we are not. Technological advances, especially in medicine, mean that we are really getting better off, and will continue to do so. But the divisions are with us for a while.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:42
alan29
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I agree. I despair when looking at the remoaners who want to stop the process. Let it happen, don't put barriers in its way, and crush those responsible when it fails.
I'm a remainer who wants it to speed along too. It's the most hilariously entertaining thing for years.
To see so much stupidity all at one time cheers me up immensely.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:43
Vast_Girth
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The current generations won't unite again unless we do better outside of the EU than we would have done inside. Anything else and people will just blame each other.

I felt we were doing really well as a country, and it's all been messed up, we will be fine of course but not as wealthy as we could have been.

That's my opinion of course, and I'd love to be proven wrong.
I think you are correct.

The whole referendum was a terrible idea as whatever happened nearly half the county was going to be very pissed off. Because brexiteers are split on what brexit means at least half of them are going to be pissed off at what is finally agreed upon. So thats 70-80% of the country pissed off. As is likely, once the economy begins to really suffer the remainers will even more pissed off at the brexiters who will try and deflect blame and be even more pissed off themselves. The whole process is going to take years and years and everyone is going to gradually get more and more fed up and pissed off with the whole thing.


There are only 2 ways to avoid this, both of which seem incredibly unlikely at the moment.

1. The mood turns against brexit and it doesn't happen at all.
2. Brexit turns out to be a huge success economically and politically.

Neither of which are going to happen. Basically the country is ****ed when it really did not need to be. If things do go as badly as it looks like they are going to, then in a few years time being a brexiteer will be a badge of shame.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:48
grassmarket
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So, how would you go about this very difficult and sensitive aftermath position of healing and uniting the nation?
Same thing as we did after World War I, World War II and Scotland's humiliation in the 1978 World Cup Finals in Argentina - get out of bed in the mornings, go to work and get on with our lives. If they like the EU so much, they are welcome to go and live in Bulgaria. Ski conditions are pretty good there today.

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourc...itions%20today
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:51
grassmarket
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In many ways the same is happening in USA (hence the vote for Trump and his protectionist ideas) and with possibly India putting more people onto the international labour market, with China moving towards a more knowledge based economy and AI coming down the track it doesn't necessarily come to an end anytime soon.
Trump is going to prove that the conventional wisdom is wrong. Advanced nations don't have to artificially cripple their own economies by over-regulation and that we can stand up to China because China needs access to our markets to survive. I doubt very much that the EU is capable of learning the same lesson, the vested interests are too strong.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:59
howard h
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The problems are being stored up for the future. If the facts are correct that more elderly voted to leave than youngsters, tho obvious problem is ten years down the line when the elderly have departed and those youngsters - and the 8 - 17yr olds now - growing up, trying to travel, settle, work and looking over their shoulders at the EU (OK - assuming it's still going!!) wondering what we are doing out of it, and can we rejoin please?

If in 2026 more than 50% of the country want to rejoin, let's say 52% to 48%, just a figure plucked out of the air, will we be allowed another referendum then??
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:13
Glyn W
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In the same way as in 1975 onwards when we voted to join against the wishes of many. We should just get on with it.

What...so the 33% who voted Leave in 1975 were screwed over but the 48% who voted Stay this year weren't?

Pathetic.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:14
barky99
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Bit late to go about uniting the nations of UK, within last century we only really united for ww1 & ww2 ... been drifting apart for a long time now politically, had a devolved parliament for England been created around time Scottish one was created then we could have headed in federal route BUT this brexit malarky is I suspect final nail in coffin of chances for the one nation dream that some wish for .... MPs in westminster show no desire for healing divides, as a whole seem intent on doing opposite merely for party benefit & maintaining power!
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:16
voteout
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Trump is going to prove that the conventional wisdom is wrong. Advanced nations don't have to artificially cripple their own economies by over-regulation and that we can stand up to China because China needs access to our markets to survive. I doubt very much that the EU is capable of learning the same lesson, the vested interests are too strong.
Trump is simply going to prove to generations too young to remember the last time we went down this road, that listening to populists never ends well.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:16
Glyn W
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So MPs in NI should vote against the wishes of the people there?
All MPs, wherever their constituency, should vote according to their own opinion.

That's what we elect them to do.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:35
barky99
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All MPs, wherever their constituency, should vote according to their own opinion.

That's what we elect them to do.
but very often that doesn't happen thanks to party whip
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:39
Glyn W
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but very often that doesn't happen thanks to party whip
Deciding whether to follow the party whip or not is also down to the MP's own opinion.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:43
Miasima Goria
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All MPs, wherever their constituency, should vote according to their own opinion.

That's what we elect them to do.
I agree with you, but a lot of people think the Brexit vote overrules that, at least in the case of A50.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:49
alan29
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Its the idea that we ever were a united nation that's making me smile.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:52
howard h
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Its the idea that we ever were a united nation that's making me smile.
We all hate the French, don't we??
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:53
Pencil
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Before the EU came along, most people were quite content to be part of a democratic country named the United Kingdom.

Now 48% of the population wants to be part of a subordinate state within an anti-democratic, soviet union style European superstate. Whether it's for the sake of continued economic strength, a belief in an eventual world government being the ultimate goal or people just identifying more as Europeans instead of Brits is anyone's guess.

The EU has potentially caused irreparable damage to our national identity. Being part of just the UK was once something to be very proud of. Now so many people see themselves as disconnected Europeans angry at their fellow Brits who they're calling the Brexiteers.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:57
jjwales
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Before the EU came along, most people were quite content to be part of a democratic country named the United Kingdom.

Now 48% of the population wants to be part of a subordinate state within an anti-democratic, soviet union style European superstate
No, that's just your personal spin on it.

or they are willing to put up with the UK becoming that for the sake of the economy.

I think the EU has done irreparable damage to our national identity. Being part of just the UK was once something to be very proud of.
Still is. I have seen no damage to our identity through being in the EU.
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:07
johnF1971
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I think the underlying cause is globalisation and in particular China putting hundreds of millions of people on the world wide jobs market at a pay rate that meant much of the work that could go to China did go to China. That suppressed the wages for those jobs that couldn't go. In order to invest their money and enable us to pay for their goods the Chinese lent the money back to us which led to the rising cost of property as it was the best asset for it to be secured against.

This led to a nation of people some of whom think they have a bright future as it hasn't directly effected their livelihood yet and some that don't.

In the context of the referendum it led to a lot of people wanting a protectionist policy on the labour market (control of our borders) so wages on the jobs that couldn't be exported might rise and terms might improve, such as a move away from zero hours contracts.

In many ways the same is happening in USA (hence the vote for Trump and his protectionist ideas) and with possibly India putting more people onto the international labour market, with China moving towards a more knowledge based economy and AI coming down the track it doesn't necessarily come to an end anytime soon.

So the underlying causes of the split are with us for some years and I think that the main problem is that neither the politicians nor anyone else knows the answers. I know we all think that the politicians take the 'I'm alright Jack' approach but I think that they genuinely don't know the solutions. And not just UK politicians.

Even Mark Carney was talking about this earlier in the week but provided no ideas on what can be done about it.

I know the above sounds like we are all getting poorer etc but we are not. Technological advances, especially in medicine, mean that we are really getting better off, and will continue to do so. But the divisions are with us for a while.
Great post with a lot of interesting points.

I agree with you that many of the problems we face are due to globalisation, China becoming an economic power and property prices in this country.

Being part of the EU was not the underlying cause of the problems IMO, but I think that many people voted to leave as a protest against the way things have been going because they didn't fully understand the causes and this was their only way to make a statement that they weren't happy.

Interesting that you mention AI, which mark Carney also talked about in his talk. Its only just started but I think in years to come this will have a huge effect on the current job-market, including a number of traditional middle class professions like accountancy and law.

Technology does create wealth but the problem is it creates a lot of wealth for those who own and control it and this wealth does not get distributed amongst everyone. In fact it can cause a decrease in wealth for a lot of people if it puts them out of a job.

IMO leaving the EU will not improve the lives of the majority of people in the UK and may make them even worse if banks and big businesses look to relocate.

The only way forward is to try and find a way to redistribute wealth more evenly between everyone rather than concentrating it for an elite few. I'm not an economist so I'm not sure exactly how this would work. Perhaps things like much larger taxes for incomes over a certain level, limits on the amount individuals can earn or own (including property) and certainly far stricter rules to stop tax avoidance schemes by wealthy individuals and businesses.

The inequality between the super-rich and everyone else is getting so extreme I believe we need something fairly drastic like a move to a far more left-wing socialist way of living, and that's not something that the current Conservative government are ever likely to support, so unfortunately all I can forsee is the rich getting even richer and everyone else continuing to struggle.
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