This morning BBC Radio 4's Today news programme had a piece about British Cycling's proposal to have the highway rules changed.

They want to make it so that any vehicle turning left has to give way to a cyclist undertaking on the nearside. In other words, if you're a driver turning left off a major road in to a side street then you'd need to stop on the main road and let any cyclist go past on your left side before completing the manoeuvre.

The argument is that it would reduce the incident of cyclists being knocked off their bikes in this scenario. Chris Boardman was being interviewed for the pro lobby. He said that pedestrians already have this right of way (which they do, by Law) and the right should be extended to cyclists. The justification added was that this is how it is done in Europe and the result is that cyclists are half as likely to be injured by left turners compared to cyclists on British roads.

It occurred to me listening to the piece that neither the anti proponent nor the interviewer picked up on the fact that European drivers drive on the right, so a left turn in Europe is equivalent to a right turn here, and we already give way to oncoming traffic when turning right, so of course Europe's left turners are safer. They aren't comparing the same thing. That aside though, the general idea just seems incredibly dangerous.

It makes any road user (cyclists included) responsible for the safety of another road user in a situation where visibility is already very limited. This might be a workable idea in daylight, but can you imagine how difficult it would be to spot a cyclist at night in poor weather against a sea of headlights, particularly if that cyclist isn't using lights. That's just thinking about car drivers. What about truck drivers who need to swing out before making a turn. They have no chance of spotting a cyclist bombing up the inside. Do you want to see truck drivers hauled up on manslaughter charges for something they can't easily avoid? Are you a truck driver yourself; if so what do you think about this idea?

Another argumentioned by the Cycling lobby is that there are too many existing rules for cyclists. They quoted a figure of 14. One of these is that a cyclist mustn't undertake a vehicle slowing or indicating to turn left.

What's your opinion on this idea. Would it make our roads safer?

It's quite easy to see pedestrians crossing a road one wants to turn left into, it's much harder to see cyclists coming up rapidly on the left (or right, or on and off the pavement ).

I didn't hear the piece so can't comment on what was said, but are you sure they weren't referring to a car turning into a nearside junction whichever side of the road you drive on?

For what it is worth, I give way to cyclists when turning left. I make a left turn off an A road into my cul-de-sac where I live daily, and very often have to wait for cyclists to pass the opening.

This, exactly. They were talking about the equivalent manoeuvre, i.e. a right turn, in countries where they drive on the right.

The second bit, I was under the impression that overtaking a cyclist, then turning left across in front of them was dangerous driving. Therefore, waiting, as you do, is not just good manners and safe, but your only legal way.

I guess what this refers to is the city centre scenario where cyclists often come up the inside of a line of traffic. That's less clear cut, but surely, the same holds, really. You don't just turn, and bugger anyone on your inside. Making that law could surely only be a good thing?

Can't really see an issue with a proposal that basically says "check your left hand mirror, before turning left", in all honesty.

Just be careful when around any cyclist, they never signal their intentions

Shouldn't encourage cyclists to undertake and turn left.

However the bigger issue is morons overtaking you, then subjecting you to a 'left hook'.

Interesting fact - a higher proportion of Audi owners also own a bike than any other car make.

I suspect it is this scenario too. My experience of years living in London driving, is you can be sitting in stationary traffic occasionally inching to the road you want to turn down when a cyclist will be weaving between cars with no signalling just nipping through any gap they can find. You can check your mirrors and they are on the driver's side then in the split second from checking and seeing them in your right hand mirror they are suddenly undertaking with no indication. The road i lived in was one way yet cyclists used to zoom up the middle of it the wrong way, at night with no lights. It's weird there is no onus on the cyclist to moderate bad cycling procedures in this. As a pedestrian you are aware of traffic and don't just cross the road going "it's my right of way". Perhaps London cyclists are a separate breed?

This ^^^

What this 'law' is proposing is that folk check their mirrors. What's not to like about that? If someone comes up along your left hand side, if you check your mirrors you'll see them and adjust your manoeuvre accordingly.

Could it be

?

I'm afraid these ASLs can promote poor cycling techniques and positioning, especially with large vehicles who may not be able to detect your presence.

It also comes from both sides not knowing why the other is doing something.
Cyclists staying out of the door zone while passing miles of parked cars are just being arseholes in most drivers eyes as they don't commute on bikes themselves and have never experienced being doored.
LGVs pulling up at the lights leaving a massive 5 or6 ft gap from the kerb to his wheels is just an invitation to cyclists to ride up the inside because they(cyclists) don't know what it's like to turn a 36ft trailer into a side street and the swingout you need to do it and how once the turn begins the driver looses all view of the nearside of the trailer due to mirror angles. He could drive over you and not even feel it.

How does one turn lwft? i don't think i have ever done it

It would be nice if the cycling lobby did something useful for a change and campaigned for the law to say cyclists must have lights, reflectors, high visibility clothing and helmets (though I don't really care about the helmets)

I don't understand why this isn't a priority for them. If they want to be safe and somehow expect drivers to see them dressing in black with no lights isn't a good idea.

When I drove to work at 5 am I lost count of the amount of times a cyclist would be almost invisible against a background of headlights!

It may be wrong to make the cyclist take responsibility and react to the actions of drivers of cars and especially HGV's but it is the only solution to preventing serious injuries or deaths.

It has been highlighted that many cyclists actually undertake and come up on the inside of vehicles so they are putting themselves at risk but many cyclists actually arrive at a junction before vehicles and are therefore subject to the actions of other vehicles. It isn't right that the cyclist should be the one to make way for those vehicles but it is much better to make way and pull back rather than be at risk from serious injury or even the loss of life.

There is however the problem that rmains of cyclists who believe they can ignore the rules, ignore traffic lights and obsevation of the safety not only for themselves but other road users and also pedestrians.

It's already the law for cyclists to have lights. No accounting for people being idiots however.

It is the law to have lights and reflectors.
Helmets are subject to a lot of debate, so not a good candidate.
Hi Viz, maybe that is right.

Much simpler to make indicating a legal requirement for car drivers. That would help everybody - pedestrians and other drivers and not just cyclists.

Any cyclist trying to undertake a moving car already indicating that they are turning left is a bloody fool in the first place.

It would be nice if the police would actually enforce it then. Perhaps as much as they do with drivers doing 46 in a 40 at 2 am on a clear road with good visibility.

There isn't a lot of traffic enforcement these days other than cameras.
The best that can be hoped for is a random check day, similar to those drink/driving ones that occur. Although it would be easy to cycle off down an alleyway...

Try turning OFF, check for a button behind your left ear.

Were you rather tragically caught speeding then? My heart bleeds.

Nope, driving for 19 years and never caught speeding!

I'm struggling to understand the pedestrian comparison. If a pedestrian is turning left, he's likely to be on the pavement, so not an issue. If he's waiting to cross the road, then it's his responsibility to ensure there's no traffic turning left, not the drivers??

I'm certainly not going to give way to the self righteous cyclist and get stuck behind him on a minor road

Why not just enforce the current law for all road users not to pass another road user at or on the approach to a junction? If cyclists followed that rule then they would *never* be left-hooked.