That applies to all sorts of things though. I tripped over a bit of uneven pavement, broke my arm in 3 places and badly smacked my face up, but I still risk going out.

In fact, most accidents happen in the home (allegedly) so staying in isn't safe either!

Of course not. Cameras are vital these days for evidence gathering, and to prove innocence.

But some people do act up, and can selectively edit, as we've seen countless times.

It's a downside to what's otherwise a good idea for the most part. I've got a dashcam for my car and have considered some sort of body cam (like a GoPro) for when I cycle.

Not read the whole thread but meant to jump here yesterday and have a rant!
Sadly the rant is at cyclists & now the people supposed to be trying to protect them.
Before anyone stops reading and thinks I'm anti-bike, I'm not. I am a cyclist, mainly off road but also commuting when weather is suitable.
I am amazed that we are no being told as cyclists that we are ok to blindly bomb up the inside of traffic & that if we get hit it's essentially not our fault or responsibility.
It is our responsibility, if we are cycling on the road to read the traffic, cycle defensively to reduce our own risk & realise that although we're not invisible we are more difficult to notice than a car, bus, van or truck.
If we cycle up the left hand side of a car approaching a junction and the car turns, why the heck is it their fault? Every other "from behind" accident is generally classed that the person from behind is at fault (except in very unusual circumstances).
It our job to check for people indicating. It is our job to asses the danger in overtaking someone, on either side.
There are already far too many people that cycle on the road that that have zero regard for the rules, the same is true for drivers (again I'm one of those too!). The difference is that a driver doing something slightly daft results in them denting a wing or breaking a headlight. The same thing done by a cyclist can easily result in death.
I have never been in a close call situation on the bike caused by my own actions because I don't put myself in stupid situations.
I don't undertake in slow moving traffic near junctions. I don't cycle up the inside of buses or trucks or if I do have to pass them it's done when they're stationary, not near a junction & quickly so I'm not in their blind spot. I don't skip through red lights, pedestrian or traffic & I don't bomb out of junctions without looking and assume that traffic will go around me.
I have been almost hit by drivers pulling out of junctions or roundabouts that just didn't see me, but that's happened when I'm driving too.
We need somehow to improve the standard of cycling in this country as some of it is just
horrendous. I'm not talking about the risk taking either, just the level of basic control that some people have and think is suitable for the road. Wobbling & weaving 2-3ft in either direction, riding on the wrong side of the road, total lack of awareness of any of their surroundings & dangers.

I know this has been very ranty, so apologies to all.
A high percentage of cyclists are invisible on the road, not literally but you don't notice them because blend in with other roads users without doing anything daft in front of you.
Another section are very visible in their lycra huddled in small groups on country roads and again generally don't do any thing wrong except travel slower than the other traffic want to go and can cause delays for everyone else, but you know what, TOUGH. They're allowed to be there as much as tractors, caravans, funeral processions, horses etc. They're keeping fit, probably going to cost the NHS less money that the guys sat in cars behind and they're having fun.
The last & most annoying set we see are the bad cyclists that display all the things I've ranted about above. They stick in everyone's mind because they wind us up. There's not as many as we think but they are very memorable!

So, in other words, the cyclist would be in the act of or about to undertake a car which is signalling to turn left.....if the cyclist wasn't making this dangerous course in the first place, then we wouldnt need to require drivers to stop and let cyclists undertake them before the car makes the left-turn.

What we need to do is teach cyclist the basic rules of the road.

Great post, and great summary.

Where I live, cyclists are pretty much fine - bar those who work on a business park and fail to wear bright clothing or use lights. Fine when most of the route into town is a cycle path, but not when they go on the road. Pedestrians also find it quite hard to spot cyclists in the dark with no lights, but that's another argument.

In central London, I think I'd really be brave enough to say that the majority of cyclists are up to no good. It's a dog eat dog world, where cyclists even have a go at other cyclists who dare stop at lights, or won't get out of the way (perhaps mounting the pavement) to let others through, and it is quite unbelievable. Some members on here will no doubt deny this happens too.

Fortunately, I think that as we build more cycle superhighways and create better junctions for cyclists, including their own lights to give a safe head start on a junction, we may find that people can co-exist together better.

But I'll continue to live my life on the basis that right or wrong, when on foot or on a bike, being proved right but dead isn't as good as staying alive. Law change or not, you just wouldn't do something because you had the law on your side.

It's not just that circumstance though is it. You've just chosen an example to suit your need to paint the cyclists as uneducated or negligent.

A cyclist who is already in front of the car, but even upon braking to make the left turn a driver would approach that left turn ahead of the cyclist, the car must give way.

Already normal good practice for any half decent driver, but being tendered to be an offence where not observed.

Perfectly reasonable to any good driver.

I moved house earlier this year and now have a 3 mile instead of a one mile commute. I do drive and have a car but have always walked to work and didn't want to start to have to drive so I invested in a bike.
I didn't have much equipment when i started in the summer. Just the helmet and lights.
As it started to get darker in the mornings and evenings I have invested in some more safety gear and it is amazing the difference it makes.
I always have a rucksack so it now has a very high viz cover. I also have leg bands and arm bands with flashing lights.
Before these purchases cars used to overtake me very close, close enough to make me wobble. Now I get a least a foot more space from them.
Being more visible definitely makes a huge difference. I actually feel safer cycling at night when i am lit up like Blackpool 'luminations than during the day.
There are always going to be some nobby cyclists who are dangerous as there will always be nobby drivers but most are pretty sensible.
My husband wants me to get a recording device in case of an accident but I prefer to spend the dosh on safety gear to make the accident less likely.
I can't really see a change in the rules making a difference but I can see the discussion it has prompted making a difference as hopefully people will be a bit more bike conscious.
I cycle very defensively and i'm never in such a hurry that i would take risks. I once hit a cyclists when i was driving and it is the worst thing that has ever happened to me.

The only thing I would say to car drivers to be more patient of is cycling in the gutter. You just can't cycle that close to the kerb as there is always drain covers, pot holes and general crap. There is no choice but to cycle a couple of feet out most of the time. Where i live the roads are shocking and I know drivers get narked but i aint putting myself in danger when i can pull out a couple of feet and have safe smooth road below my wheels.

I picked an example where as a night time driver I see many or nearly all cyclists without any illumination at all, and the process of slowing to turn left and looking in my rear view mirror and side mirror, I still might not see one of these cyclists.....because it's dark, no street lights, + the cyclist is wearing dark cloths and doesn't have any lights or even a reflector fitted. Worse still, if it's foggy.......there's no chance of me seeing him/her in thick fog....none. They literally disappear in the fog. And ofcourse, there's the blind spot issue as well.......using both rear and side mirrors doesn't mean the cyclist isn't there....if it's in the blind spot, so an over the shoulder check is needed as well. Even cars with blind spot warning systems (not many) prolly wouldnt detect an unlit cycle in thick fog.


You said a cyclist who is already in front of a car......so if that car was then to slow or was already slowing to turn, how would that be an issue - the cyclist is off down the road by then.

Because a car may be travelling faster than the cyclist even under braking as I said In my post...

Mark, are you trying to simply say that in a Venn diagram, the circle depicting the idiots in the world that deliberately set out to provoke people &/or do stupid things and record it for the sake of personal gain or notoriety, has no overlapping boundary with the circle depicting the cyclists of the world.
If you are, you are wrong & I can prove that very simply by showing you this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ

And you seem only to want to focus on the 'left hook' and not undertaking (very appropriate word) cyclists.


So I suppose this driver was in the wrong and the cyclist was in the right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLsuJP5TF-k

But if the car is braking and the cycle is already ahead,.......how am I going to hit it? I am slowing to take the junction behind the cyclist....by the time I have slowed the cyclist will be long gone.

Worst of all however are those irresponsible parents who put their young children in a trailer on the back....what is that all about. I would sooner cut of my own ear.

Anyhow, as was talked about on LBC the other night, how can any council justify spending 700mil a year on cycle lanes? I thought the country was skint, but apparently not......but they will cut funding for social care, or local bus services. And all those wide cycle lanes means less road space, means more congestion, = more pollution.

Not sure I can say it any other way, so we'll leave it there.

As you've said, this is normal practice for you, so why do you see it as a problem to make it an offence? Do you think cyclists will now purposefully continue at high speed to undertake at side roads and junctions because they're now somehow 'safe' in the knowledge they have right of way?

Okay then.

Work Christmas Party time. Wish me luck.

Wow. Narrow misses like that put it all into perspective!

There was a previous threat about that one. There was some debate about what happened earlier not about the bit where the driver turned.

Well in a 'pics or it didn't happen' world, I wonder where that footage is!

I would have insisted that this bloke call the police

If a vehicle is signalling to turn left, then any road user should not pass up the inside of it under any circumstances. They are behind it. It is incorrect to undertake and they do not have priority.
Common sense.

Are there bus lanes anywhere that are painted across a junction ? If so , I could see that causing a problem with a car on its offside turning across it

But u said the cyclist was in front.....and if the car was going into a side road, while cycle on the main road was already in front, the car would not catch up (I am assuming u mean the cycle is continuing on the main road while the car is leaving it).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey_Specter
A cyclist who is already in front of the car,

people using bus lanes should be aware that cars not allowed in them are going to wanting to turn off

they might be one of the ***** in a high performance car, you know the ones that acclerate about 20 yards before ramming their brakes on and having to queue up behind all the shitcarts

Actually yes. If the law gives them automatic right of way, they may well just keep going even when they see the car just ahead turning in front of them....they will be expecting the car to stop.
I can also say that not everyone driving cars will bother to look for cyclists.....I am not making it up. Lots of people drive (even in town, 30 zone) heavy on the gas pedal, then heavy on the brakes, at the last min, then as they are about to turn or while turning (!) put their turn signal on - if your lucky.

It's dog eat dog out there.

I am using the conventional definition in which the cyclist puts themselves in the blind spot of the turning vehicle. Obviously if the vehicle has just passed the cyclist then the driver knows they are there and would it would be reckless for them to turn. I suppose you could distinguish the two as being an accidental left hook or a deliberate left hook. I know which one I consider to deserve the more severe legal retribution.

That's not the definition, conventional or otherwise.

A left hook is when a vehicle overtakes then immediately turns left.

I just had to go out and drive thru our little town. By this time it was totally dark.
I counted 4 cyclists all without any lights, or reflectors of any kind between my end of town and the other side.

The first one in our street was on the left behind me, then the right, then the left, then at the junction with the main road, crossed straight over the junction onto the path, going the wrong way.

The 2nd was already on that main road, this one was cycling in the road, but going against oncoming traffic!

The 3rd came from a car park, straight onto the path, and down the high st....all on the path (its not dual use).

The 4th was riding on the high path on the south side of town (again not dual use).


.....that's just in the space of 5mins in small market town. How these people are still alive I don't know.