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Why are the police not taking serious cases...seriously?


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Old 09-12-2016, 07:53
max_garfield
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I will state beforehand that I am not someone who hates the police or think I know better etc, I am sure there are great policing in areas and investigators etc but lately the police seem to be very dismissive indeed in high profile cases.

First of all was the case of Stephen Port ('grindr killer') which, with the plea of victims family members and friends to investigate the links between each murders as they were happening, were totally dismissed and uninformative to the immediate family regarding the deaths of their sons.

And now there is the recent story of the missing serviceman Corrie Mckeague who was last seen (on cctv) in September and are not investigating the case very much at all judging by the family who are of course in desperate need for information of their missing relative. So much so that they launched a crowdfunding for a private investigator!

Why are the police being so dismissive and showing lack of respect for cases that involve murder and serious crime? Is it lack of staff, lack of interest, lack of funds?

The reason I say this is because with the first case of Stephen Port, his laptop was taken by police and confiscated (this was after the first death). When the police felt it was non-suspicious and that Port had no direct involvement, they didn't need to use it. However when the second murder happened just a few months later, a member of the public asked for them to test the laptop for any possible information, only to be told it would be "too expensive" to do that. Had they have done this, two more lives would've been saved.

It makes me lose complete faith in them. A similar story is of a teenage girl who reported a rape but instead of having an investigation, was just given a rape alarm!?
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Old 09-12-2016, 08:07
theid
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A very important issue which nobody seems willing to address.

For years now anyone who has needed to contact the police (assault, robbery, car accidents the most common) will have been frustrated at the apparent reluctance of the police to deal with the report other than to give you an incident number. My feeling is that if they feel the incident COULD be dealt with through the civil court they are especially reluctant to get involved but that in any event they have neither the time nor the funding to investigate. Often they claim (probably correctly) that the Crown Prosecution Service SAY there is not enough evidence to proceed with the case.

Not enough police funding. Not enough CPS funding. Not enough Court funding. Not enough Prison funding. The list goes on ......... Just not enough.
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Old 09-12-2016, 08:32
Maxatoria
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For the first case theres a massive backlog of forensic computer stuff so I hear to start with so it would be a low priority and probably would sit on a shelf for the next 10 years as they don't have enough properly trained people to handle the backlog due to budgets especially when they've got to be able to present the information in court (so not everyone with a gcse in computing can be one).

As for the missing person it could be they don't want to be found..the police can't search every hen house/dog house and outhouse on the off chance that they may just find him, with cctv and facial recognition software if he shows up at any major transport hub like a train station there may be a chance he'll be spotted but if he's wearing a hat and glasses and now has a beard you could hide a dozen badgers in he might be able to get past even that and until we need to present 'papers' for every action we do theres no chance of finding him..this does assume he's alive and well.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:45
Monkey_Moo
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I will state beforehand that I am not someone who hates the police or think I know better etc, I am sure there are great policing in areas and investigators etc but lately the police seem to be very dismissive indeed in high profile cases.

First of all was the case of Stephen Port ('grindr killer') which, with the plea of victims family members and friends to investigate the links between each murders as they were happening, were totally dismissed and uninformative to the immediate family regarding the deaths of their sons.

And now there is the recent story of the missing serviceman Corrie Mckeague who was last seen (on cctv) in September and are not investigating the case very much at all judging by the family who are of course in desperate need for information of their missing relative. So much so that they launched a crowdfunding for a private investigator!

Why are the police being so dismissive and showing lack of respect for cases that involve murder and serious crime? Is it lack of staff, lack of interest, lack of funds?

The reason I say this is because with the first case of Stephen Port, his laptop was taken by police and confiscated (this was after the first death). When the police felt it was non-suspicious and that Port had no direct involvement, they didn't need to use it. However when the second murder happened just a few months later, a member of the public asked for them to test the laptop for any possible information, only to be told it would be "too expensive" to do that. Had they have done this, two more lives would've been saved.

It makes me lose complete faith in them. A similar story is of a teenage girl who reported a rape but instead of having an investigation, was just given a rape alarm!?
There will always be mistakes made by any organisations, be it the police, NHS, whatever. No one is 100% infallible and never will be. The police deal with millions for crime each year, including thousands of rapes, missing people, murders, burglaries etc. Vast majority are dealt with fine, but they rarely make good headlines.

Hindsight, especially when people have very unrealistic expectations of what's possible, is also a wonderful thing.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:55
Andrue
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And now there is the recent story of the missing serviceman Corrie Mckeague who was last seen (on cctv) in September and are not investigating the case very much at all.
If an adult chooses to break off all contact with friends and family and set up a new life somewhere else that's their right. It's also a right that the law should protect. The police should only intervene if they think it's likely that the individual has (or could) come to harm.

And now there is the recent story of the missing serviceman Corrie Mckeague who was last seen (on cctv) in September and are not investigating the case very much at all judging by the family
Not investigating the case very much?

"Since he was reported missing thousands of hours of police time have been spent on carrying out hundreds of enquiries, including searches, comprehensive analysis of CCTV footage, and background work to see if any other factors may have been involved in his disappearance."

What more do you expect them to do? A house by house search of the entire country?
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:57
Ben_Copland
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Easy to assume from the outside, but the backlog of cases that the police are having to deal with is just ridiculously huge. One example, there's supposed to be 13 people on someones team who I know.... There are 2 currently working. All the rest are off with stress...
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:06
Monkey_Moo
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A very important issue which nobody seems willing to address.

For years now anyone who has needed to contact the police (assault, robbery, car accidents the most common) will have been frustrated at the apparent reluctance of the police to deal with the report other than to give you an incident number. My feeling is that if they feel the incident COULD be dealt with through the civil court they are especially reluctant to get involved but that in any event they have neither the time nor the funding to investigate. Often they claim (probably correctly) that the Crown Prosecution Service SAY there is not enough evidence to proceed with the case.

Not enough police funding. Not enough CPS funding. Not enough Court funding. Not enough Prison funding. The list goes on ......... Just not enough.
There is a huge funding shortfall, but even before the cutbacks the police could not send an officer to the scene of every crime. You would need hundreds of officers covering a town, when in reality there is probably just a handful. If 2 shops have just called in to say they have a violent shoplifter detained, someone reports an burglary, an assault and a robbery, (all jobs that need 2 or more officers to attend) - and you only have 5 officers available, what do you do? This happens every single hour.

But even if there was enough, the reality is that a police officer simply isn't required a lot for the time. An officer visiting a scene is only a small part of an investigation, the vast majority is office/station based work. A lot goes on behind the scenes that most people don't see.

As for evidence - in the U.K. when have a legal system that is based on the principle that to convict a person they must be found guilty beyond all reasonable reasonable doubt. That a high standard of proof, and it means a lot of guilty people get away with things. But that's in order the keep to conviction of innocent be as low as possible. That's a principle I hope with never move away from. If there is no likelihood of conviction, the law prevents the police/CPS from sending them to court.

I'm not sure why though you think it's not being addressed - police performance is constantly being addressed by multiple organisations.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:10
lybertyne
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Too busy arseing around with events that may or may not have happened 30+ years ago.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:15
GusGus
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If an adult chooses to break off all contact with friends and family and set up a new life somewhere else that's their right. It's also a right that the law should protect. The police should only intervene if they think it's likely that the individual has (or could) come to harm.



Not investigating the case very much?

"Since he was reported missing thousands of hours of police time have been spent on carrying out hundreds of enquiries, including searches, comprehensive analysis of CCTV footage, and background work to see if any other factors may have been involved in his disappearance."

What more do you expect them to do? A house by house search of the entire country?

I don't see what else they could have done, there was wall to wall television coverage when he first went missing - he just seems to have disappeared
I think that after a certain number of days it is assumed that the missing person is dead or wants to remain missing, and the police just await events
Think Madeleine MaCann
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:17
Deep Purple
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There is a big difference between not taking things seriously, and making mistakes.

When I retired it had got to a point where there was no where near enough police to deal with the amount of work coming their way, and it has got worse since then, with no sign of getting better.

The reliance is on dedicated officers having pride in their performance, and doing their very best in very difficult times.

Thankfully there are still plenty who do that, but there are also the lazy, demotivated among them that cause many of the bad headlines.

Supervision, and keeping everyone up to date with proper continual training was always something that I saw as a major problem too.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:44
Mark_Jones9
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In the case of the Grindr killer the conduct of 17 police officers is being investigated, 7 for suspected gross misconduct. The police failed to do their job properly and if not for the relatives of the last victim the killer would still be free and killing, with the police claiming the deaths accidents or suicides and failing to properly investigate.
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Old 09-12-2016, 13:05
testcard
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On a more positive note, good to see the police are meeting their targets of sexually exploiting people, including victims of crime.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38240524
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Old 09-12-2016, 13:33
Jellied Eel
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If an adult chooses to break off all contact with friends and family and set up a new life somewhere else that's their right. It's also a right that the law should protect. The police should only intervene if they think it's likely that the individual has (or could) come to harm.
In this case, McKeague is a serviceman who'd be AWL.. But there didn't seem to be any indication that he was planning to leave, hence why the police and RAF have spent a lot of time/resources trying to find him.
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Old 09-12-2016, 14:39
worzil
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Too busy arseing around with events that may or may not have happened 30+ years ago.
It costs to much and and means they cant do the easy jobs that make money like speeding which makes them money.
I have never seen so many policemen on foot with speeding cameras.
Were I live if you need the police between 8PM and 6AM you have to phone to a station that is 8 miles away.
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Old 09-12-2016, 14:50
Monkey_Moo
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It costs to much and and means they cant do the easy jobs that make money like speeding which makes them money.
I have never seen so many policemen on foot with speeding cameras.
Were I live if you need the police between 8PM and 6AM you have to phone to a station that is 8 miles away.
None of the money goes to the police, it goes to the government. Maybe if it went to the police we could afford more officers.

The police do virtually no speed enforcement these days. I don't know any police officers that have. It's almost entirely done by civilians in speed partnerships.
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Old 09-12-2016, 15:09
spkx
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None of the money goes to the police, it goes to the government. Maybe if it went to the police would could afford more officers.

The police do virtually no speed enforcement these days. I don't know any police officers that have. It's almost entirely done by civilians in speed partnerships.
Was going to say, would be interested to know that poster's force. Typically only RPUs are the only police that do speed enforcement and they've been cut to the bone.

Indeed, only last month was it revealed one force (Leicestershire) had absolutely no RPU officers at all overnight whatsoever, let alone ones catching speeders.

In any case, a police officer out with a speed gun is **NEVER** going to have 'investigate a serial killer' on their to do list. Completely different levels of officers.
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Old 09-12-2016, 15:39
Thine Wonk
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Indeed, only last month was it revealed one force (Leicestershire) had absolutely no RPU officers at all overnight whatsoever, let alone ones catching speeders.
Can you quote where that information has come from? I find it very hard to believe. I'm happy to ask Leicestershire police on Twitter if it's true as I suspect that cannot be the case and I can't find any articles to corroborate it.
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Old 09-12-2016, 15:44
testcard
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Can you quote where that information has come from? I find it very hard to believe. I'm happy to ask Leicestershire police on Twitter if it's true as I suspect that cannot be the case and I can't find any articles to corroborate it.
Interesting that you mention Twitter. I've always found it ironic that police numbers are being cut whilst at the same time forces seem to have plenty of staff available to spend their days on social media.
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Old 09-12-2016, 15:56
Andrue
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Interesting that you mention Twitter. I've always found it ironic that police numbers are being cut whilst at the same time forces seem to have plenty of staff available to spend their days on social media.
Not all Police officers are employed on the streets. There are also a large number of civilian office workers. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 80% of the people employed by the various Police forces were sat at a desk these days. That's tens of thousands of people who can type something into twitter at the drop of a hat without significantly impacting their productivity.

I doubt many of them (probably none) 'spend their days on social media'. Like most desk jockeys they will just post something now and again throughout the day. In some jobs it's a useful form of mental break. I do that a lot when my brain starts to rebel from too much C#.
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:00
Deep Purple
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Not all Police officers are employed on the streets. There are also a large number of civilian office workers. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 80% of the people employed by the various Police forces were sat at a desk these days. That's tens of thousands of people who can type something into twitter at the drop of a hat without significantly impacting their productivity.

I doubt many of them (probably none) 'spend their days on social media'. Like most desk jockeys they will just post something now and again throughout the day. In some jobs it's a useful form of mental break. I do that a lot when my brain starts to rebel from too much C#.
That is the biggest problem. It is only a very small percentage that are "on the streets" responding to incidents as they are reported.

That role is seen by those up the chain as the lowest form of policing, and far too many want to get away from that far too soon, and before they gain enough experience of doing the job.
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:02
Thine Wonk
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Interesting that you mention Twitter. I've always found it ironic that police numbers are being cut whilst at the same time forces seem to have plenty of staff available to spend their days on social media.
They have always had a couple of civilians who interface with the press and reporters etc, it is just these days instead of writing press releases and faxing them etc the method has changed and appeals for information etc come from Twitter with links to the website for more information

What we've seen is the closure of some front desks in favour of alternative communication methods and just like mobile phone companies and other organisations if you have a quick question it is easier to simply ask in one sentence via Twitter and get a quick response. I think all the police are doing is mirroring what other organisations have done, which is move more online. You can still go to some front desks for enquiries, but it is actually more efficient to have a centralised phone / Twitter based system rather than lots and lots of front desks like in the old days.

What would annoy me is a serious lack of important functions like roads policing at night, I doubt the claim about having zero roads policing officers at night is true, which is why I'm happy to check if the poster wants to link me to where they got the information from.
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:09
LakieLady
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On a more positive note, good to see the police are meeting their targets of sexually exploiting people, including victims of crime.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38240524

They seem to be meeting their coke-snorting targets, too https://sussex.police.uk/news/bright...e-for-cocaine/ .
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:15
Thine Wonk
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They seem to be meeting their coke-snorting targets, too https://sussex.police.uk/news/bright...e-for-cocaine/ .
This shows how good the system is and how little corruption is in place if the occasional officer out of hundreds is caught through routine tests and sacked.

I think this is a positive thing, and quite rare too. You sound like you're looking for any excuse to bash them, but I bet you'd be complaining if they didn't rush to your house when you're being robbed, and I bet you'd expect them to come in and tackle a drugged up burglar with a knife if you needed help.
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:24
testcard
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The problem is that "occasional officer" doesn't really explain the 300 police officers accused of sexual exploitation in my link earlier. Either their accusers are lying or else we have a situation where corruption is endemic throughout the police in this country.
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:29
Thine Wonk
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The problem is that "occasional officer" doesn't really explain the 300 police officers accused of sexual exploitation in my link earlier. Either their accusers are lying or else we have a situation where corruption is endemic throughout the police in this country.
300 allegations out of 126,000 officers in the UK, We also shouldn't assume that the allegations are true until proven. Individuals often make allegations against the police as a way to fight the system, the police have so many body cams and CCTV in stations these days that I think we should wait and see if any are proven first.
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