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120,000 leave voters now dead
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jjwales
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by ShaunIOW:
“Why is there an assumption that only the old voted leave anyway?”

There isn't. But it is true that older people tended to vote Leave.

Quote:
“ As for people changing their minds, that happens after general elections and there is no call for a re-run”

But you do get a re-run with general elections - you just have to wait five years for it!
MargMck
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by jjwales:
“There isn't. But it is true that older people tended to vote Leave.



But you do get a re-run with general elections - you just have to wait five years for it!”

And for referendums it seems to be 40 years. I consider myself very lucky to have voted Eff Off EU twice for Tony Benn. Obviously born at the right time.
Resonance
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by jjwales:
“There isn't. But it is true that older people tended to vote Leave.



But you do get a re-run with general elections - you just have to wait five years for it!”

You get a re-run in referendums if you vote for a party that will let you have one. Us Brexiters have been told for years if we wanted one, vote someone in who'll offer one.

Your best bet for a 'Do you want to become a member of the EU' referendum is probably the Lib Dems. Saying that I doubt even they'll be going on about it in a few years time, when they've realised the world didn't end after we left.
Pumping Iron
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by jjwales:
“There isn't. But it is true that older people tended to vote Leave.



But you do get a re-run with general elections - you just have to wait five years for it!”

Exactly, just as it's true that younger people tended not to bother voting at all.
BrokenArrow
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by jjwales:
“There isn't. But it is true that older people tended to vote Leave. ”

Its also true that young people lack common sense.
Ironwithin
09-12-2016
YouGov have just done a poll on the 5th december of 2671 people which shows that 58% of those voting still want to leave while only 29% want to call it all off. So it does not matter whos died, a lot more people now want us to leave than not.

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...224760e575/age
burneside
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by MargMck:
“Anyway, all the old Leavers were given a new lease of life by the Brexit result. It's like when you take an ancient, arthritic dog to the vets and he/she gives it one of those magic steroid boosters that has it running around for another year like a puppy.
Perhaps it's woeful old Remainers who have given up the ghost. Everyone else is very keen to live and see what happens next. It's so exciting!”

Waking up to the fantastic result certainly put a spring in my step, and I still have six months later, I don't think I'll ever lose it.
Pumping Iron
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by BrokenArrow:
“Its also true that young people lack common sense.”

And have less important life experiences.
DianaFire
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Ironwithin:
“YouGov have just done a poll on the 5th december of 2671 people which shows that 58% of those voting still want to leave while only 29% want to call it all off. So it does not matter whos died, a lot more people now want us to leave than not.

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...224760e575/age”

They didn't ask them who wanted to leave. They said which statement comes closest to your view.

Interestingly, more people want to call the whole thing off than have a swift Brexit based on immigration, so any support for that is disappearing fast.

ETA 83% of those who want to call it off are under 40, whereas the largest group in the swift Brexit category are aged 60+.
Eurostar
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by DianaFire:
“To be fair to the OP, who reposted the Indy headline, the biggest change seems to be the vote switchers - over a million would now choose remain while 161,000 would change their vote to leave.”

This would be the main problem I would have with the entire referendum. It was little more of a snapshot of public opinion in summer 2016. Hold it two years earlier or two years later and you could get a different result. EU membership was too vast and complex a topic to be on a ballot paper. Even if the result gone the other way, it would have led to a deeply divided Britain and created a toxic atmosphere.....the very holding of the thing was a huge mistake.
Ironwithin
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by DianaFire:
“They didn't ask them who wanted to leave. They said which statement comes closest to your view.

Interestingly, more people want to call the whole thing off than have a swift Brexit based on immigration, so any support for that is disappearing fast.”

Two of the choices were to carry on with Brexit but at different speeds, one was to call it all off. So it was also a choice to leave or stay. More pople picked the leave options than the stay option.
DianaFire
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“This would be the main problem I would have with the entire referendum. It was little more of a snapshot of public opinion in summer 2016. Hold it two years earlier or two years later and you could get a different result. EU membership was too vast and complex a topic to be on a ballot paper. Even if the result gone the other way, it would have led to a deeply divided Britain and created a toxic atmosphere.....the very holding of the thing was a huge mistake.”

Agreed. I wish they'd just called it an opinion poll and developed some policies on the back of it. It would have been far less divisive. and both campaigns were misleading bordering on lying.

Originally Posted by Ironwithin:
“Two of the choices were to carry on with Brexit but at different speeds, one was to call it all off. So it was also a choice to leave or stay. More pople picked the leave options than the stay option.”

We've already voted leave. It's a post-referendum opinion. It's not about 'wanting' to leave but what is best to do in the circumstances.

ETA for clarification there are Remainers on here who want to get on with Brexit. It doesn't mean they have become Leave voters.
Staunchy
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“This would be the main problem I would have with the entire referendum. It was little more of a snapshot of public opinion in summer 2016. Hold it two years earlier or two years later and you could get a different result. EU membership was too vast and complex a topic to be on a ballot paper. Even if the result gone the other way, it would have led to a deeply divided Britain and created a toxic atmosphere.....the very holding of the thing was a huge mistake.”

As it wasn't your country voting, I do wonder why you put so much effort into telling another country they were wrong to have a referendum. If you put this much time and effort into addressing issues in your own country maybe you'd have a sensible law on abortion by now.
Eurostar
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Staunchy:
“As it wasn't your country voting, I do wonder why you put so much effort into telling another country they were wrong to have a referendum. If you put this much time and effort into addressing issues in your own country maybe you'd have a sensible law on abortion by now.”

If it was on a purely internal UK matter that affects British citizens only then yes, I would have no opinion on the subject one way or the other but quitting the EU affects the whole of Europe, including Ireland.
DianaFire
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Ironwithin:
“YouGov have just done a poll on the 5th december of 2671 people which shows that 58% of those voting still want to leave while only 29% want to call it all off. So it does not matter whos died, a lot more people now want us to leave than not.

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...224760e575/age”

Interestingly, by far the biggest single group in that collection of respondents were 18 - 24 year olds who want to call the whole thing off.
burneside
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“If it was on a purely internal UK matter that affects British citizens only then yes, I would have no opinion on the subject one way or the other but quitting the EU affects the whole of Europe, including Ireland.”

You can have an opinion of course, but it's still got nothing to do with you how we conduct our affairs.
Resonance
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by DianaFire:
“Interestingly, by far the biggest single group in that collection of respondents were 18 - 24 year olds who want to call the whole thing off.”

Maybe if a few more of them had voted in the first place........

A good life lesson for some I suspect.
DianaFire
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Resonance:
“Maybe if a few more of them had voted in the first place........

A good life lesson for some I suspect.”

Totally agree. It'll have been a swift kick for them.
MargMck
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“This would be the main problem I would have with the entire referendum. It was little more of a snapshot of public opinion in summer 2016. Hold it two years earlier or two years later and you could get a different result. EU membership was too vast and complex a topic to be on a ballot paper. Even if the result gone the other way, it would have led to a deeply divided Britain and created a toxic atmosphere.....the very holding of the thing was a huge mistake.”

Maybe in your opinion, but not for those of us actually living here who voted Leave. Millions of us had been trying to get to this position for years. We voted - with some of us holding our noses - to send ranting UKIP zealots to the EU 'parliament' time and again until eventually they made history by beating all the other parties in a vote and becoming Britain's largest party there.
They started eating into pro-EU Tory MPs majorities and hoovering up lifelong - until then - Labour voters.
So please don't tell us it was a huge mistake - it was exactly what millions had campaigned for and a big reason why the Tories under Cameron - having promised a referendum - got a surprise overall majority.
And then when the vote came some 17.5 million - getting on for four times the population of Ireland - chose Leave.
Actually Britain was deeply divided before the vote - it's just that the people in power had not been listening until very recently (and many didn't care) to those of us who had genuinely had enough. Frankly, I find your attitude patronising.
MargMck
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by DianaFire:
“Interestingly, by far the biggest single group in that collection of respondents were 18 - 24 year olds who want to call the whole thing off.”

Since only about 25% of that age group could actually be bothered to use their precious vote they can carry on doing yeah but, no but, yeah but.
DianaFire
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by MargMck:
“Since only about 25% of that age group could actually be bothered to use their precious vote they can carry on doing yeah but, no but, yeah but.”

As another poster has pointed out, it's given them a life lesson in what happens when they don't vote. Might have an interesting impact on the next GE.
Staunchy
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“If it was on a purely internal UK matter that affects British citizens only then yes, I would have no opinion on the subject one way or the other but quitting the EU affects the whole of Europe, including Ireland.”

But it's done, what good does repeatedly posting that it shouldn't have happened achieve?
Peter the Great
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by MargMck:
“Maybe in your opinion, but not for those of us actually living here who voted Leave. Millions of us had been trying to get to this position for years. We voted - with some of us holding our noses - to send ranting UKIP zealots to the EU 'parliament' time and again until eventually they made history by beating all the other parties in a vote and becoming Britain's largest party there.
They started eating into pro-EU Tory MPs majorities and hoovering up lifelong - until then - Labour voters.
So please don't tell us it was a huge mistake - it was exactly what millions had campaigned for and a big reason why the Tories under Cameron - having promised a referendum - got a surprise overall majority.
And then when the vote came some 17.5 million - getting on for four times the population of Ireland - chose Leave.
Actually Britain was deeply divided before the vote - it's just that the people in power had not been listening until very recently (and many didn't care) to those of us who had genuinely had enough. Frankly, I find your attitude patronising.”

You keep on repeating this nonsense. The Tories vote barely rose in 2015 to that in 2010. They won a majority by default because the Lib Dem vote collapsed.
trunkster
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“This would be the main problem I would have with the entire referendum. It was little more of a snapshot of public opinion in summer 2016. Hold it two years earlier or two years later and you could get a different result. EU membership was too vast and complex a topic to be on a ballot paper. Even if the result gone the other way, it would have led to a deeply divided Britain and created a toxic atmosphere.....the very holding of the thing was a huge mistake.”

So by not holding one you think the resentment and toxic atmosphere would just go away? or rather you would just ignore those wanting to leave as before.
MargMck
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Peter the Great:
“You keep on repeating this nonsense. The Tories vote barely rose in 2015 to that in 2010. They won a majority by default because the Lib Dem vote collapsed.”

Nonsense to you, but it's where the right votes pile up that count. And the effect of us non-Tories who sat on our hands in 2015 to help achieve a referendum.
Interesting, too, that when the Lib Dems now get some votes it's put down to their new Remain fans.
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