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120,000 leave voters now dead


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Old 09-12-2016, 16:35
DaveBradshaw_7
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Just checking in briefly .. how many we up to now then?

It's been a bit misty round here, was wondering if a few bonus buffers might have misjudged crossing a road or summink.
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:46
Thiswillbefun
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All 17.4 million are worse off? Worse off than who?
It's very simple.

Worse off in future years relative to where they would have been if we'd voted to stay in the UK.

Worse off because of the loss of economic synergies.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to punish the poorest in society.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to put through policies that reward the businesses which "lobby" them.
Worse off because of all the cuts to social funding.
Worse off because local governments will "double tax" their residents to make up for their budget shortfalls.
Worse off because the Tories will continue to cut corporation tax, using Brexit as an excuse to attract business, when passing the tax receipts from businesses to the public was their original aim anyway.
Worse off because further banking deregulation will intensify the forthcoming financial crash.
Worse off because all the businesses such as Google, Apple etc who are expanding in the UK post-referendum are the ones who avoid paying tax here, and are doing back room deals with the government.
Worse off because we're moving towards the imposition of trading tariffs, which will push up shop prices.
Worse off because the fall in the value of sterling is already pushing up the cost of imports and raw materials.
Worse off because the main way to temper inflation is to raise interest rates, which will cause tens of thousands unable to cover their mortgage costs.
etc etc
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:48
Thiswillbefun
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Difficult concept, I know, but it is possible to leave the EU and then throw the Tories in the skip.
That would be lovely!

Unfortunately the damage will be one before they leave office.
And if they do leave, who do we have in their place?
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:51
Eurostar
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Brexiters are fully aware that no one has benefitted as a result of us being in the EU.
I'd be talking more about a person who is struggling in general and on a low income or whatever. They may have made a decision that membership of the EU was to blame for their plight and that being outside it would improve their lot.
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:55
Granny McSmith
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It's very simple.

Worse off in future years relative to where they would have been if we'd voted to stay in the UK.

Worse off because of the loss of economic synergies.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to punish the poorest in society.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to put through policies that reward the businesses which "lobby" them.
Worse off because of all the cuts to social funding.
Worse off because local governments will "double tax" their residents to make up for their budget shortfalls.
Worse off because the Tories will continue to cut corporation tax, using Brexit as an excuse to attract business, when passing the tax receipts from businesses to the public was their original aim anyway.
Worse off because further banking deregulation will intensify the forthcoming financial crash.
Worse off because all the businesses such as Google, Apple etc who are expanding in the UK post-referendum are the ones who avoid paying tax here, and are doing back room deals with the government.
Worse off because we're moving towards the imposition of trading tariffs, which will push up shop prices.
Worse off because the fall in the value of sterling is already pushing up the cost of imports and raw materials.
Worse off because the main way to temper inflation is to raise interest rates, which will cause tens of thousands unable to cover their mortgage costs.
etc etc
Never mind. In years to come the country will be bankrupt, we can apply to rejoin the EU, but we will be so poor that we will be a beneficiary instead of a contributor. We'll be quids in!
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:00
Doctor_Wibble
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I'd be talking more about a person who is struggling in general and on a low income or whatever. They may have made a decision that membership of the EU was to blame for their plight and that being outside it would improve their lot.
Or maybe they saw it as a way for something substantive to change rather than just change the captain of the ship. as it were. All the people advising them that this was unwise were representatives of those they saw as being the problem and wanted to kick, and they were all talking about 'the economy' and in terms of things that someone at the bottom end of the scale never gets to see.

If you're stuck with getting barely 2 hours a week cleaning hamster cages then you really aren't going to give a stuff about trading deficits, interest rates (because your payday loan bears no relation to those, it will be a million percent regardless), or what happens to the stock market (etc) so you are going to vote for any change that might be going and the 'worse off' from your current situation is going to be barely noticeable.

Yes, there's more than a bit of guesswork there but I think it's a relatively fair summary of at least some of it. The fact that it was an EU referendum is probably far less relevant than many might think.
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:03
CSJB
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Well there are 17.4 million Brexiters who voted to make themselves worse off because they were fed up being worse off.
Gave the Tory government more power to screw them over because they were fed up being screwed over by the Tories.
And keep moaning about the democratic process being followed because they left the EU to "regain democracy".

You really couldn't make it up.
Your post proves that isn't the case.
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:06
johnF1971
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Well there are 17.4 million Brexiters who voted to make themselves worse off because they were fed up being worse off.
Gave the Tory government more power to screw them over because they were fed up being screwed over by the Tories.
And keep moaning about the democratic process being followed because they left the EU to "regain democracy".

You really couldn't make it up.
Yes indeed.

If it was just a few fat cat bankers and other super rich who were going to lose out because of Brexit and everyone else was due to be better off I'd be celebrating with the Brexiters and campaigning for a knighthood for Nigel Farage.

The fact is though that all those at the bottom who voted for Brexit because they believed the lies that it would somehow make them better off have inadvertently made things worse for everyone, in particular themselves.

The economy has already started to decline. That's not a lie, or propaganda, or project fear. Its a fact you can see quite clearly by looking at the value of the pound and other basic indicators. When the economy suffers it is always those at the bottom who bare the brunt of it. The super rich will continue to be OK. Maybe downsize a few yachts, but they'll manage fine. They always do. It will be the poor who suffer most when benefits and services get cut, as they surely will.

Think about who it was who proposed the referendum in the first place and are now forcing it through. The Tories. Since when did they ever care about the plight of ordinary working people? Every time I hear May speak she reminds me more of Thatcher. Think about which newspapers most strongly support Brexit. The DM, a right wing conservative paper.

A whole load of people in this country have been duped into thinking that by voting for a change it will make their lives better, and that is why some of us are exercising our democratic right to "moan" about it.
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:13
johnF1971
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Or maybe they saw it as a way for something substantive to change rather than just change the captain of the ship. as it were. All the people advising them that this was unwise were representatives of those they saw as being the problem and wanted to kick, and they were all talking about 'the economy' and in terms of things that someone at the bottom end of the scale never gets to see.

If you're stuck with getting barely 2 hours a week cleaning hamster cages then you really aren't going to give a stuff about trading deficits, interest rates (because your payday loan bears no relation to those, it will be a million percent regardless), or what happens to the stock market (etc) so you are going to vote for any change that might be going and the 'worse off' from your current situation is going to be barely noticeable.

Yes, there's more than a bit of guesswork there but I think it's a relatively fair summary of at least some of it. The fact that it was an EU referendum is probably far less relevant than many might think.
Yes, I think that's a good point. And a similar thing happened in the US election when they voted for Trump.
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:20
Pumping Iron
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It's very simple.

Worse off in future years relative to where they would have been if we'd voted to stay in the UK.

Worse off because of the loss of economic synergies.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to punish the poorest in society.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to put through policies that reward the businesses which "lobby" them.
Worse off because of all the cuts to social funding.
Worse off because local governments will "double tax" their residents to make up for their budget shortfalls.
Worse off because the Tories will continue to cut corporation tax, using Brexit as an excuse to attract business, when passing the tax receipts from businesses to the public was their original aim anyway.
Worse off because further banking deregulation will intensify the forthcoming financial crash.
Worse off because all the businesses such as Google, Apple etc who are expanding in the UK post-referendum are the ones who avoid paying tax here, and are doing back room deals with the government.
Worse off because we're moving towards the imposition of trading tariffs, which will push up shop prices.
Worse off because the fall in the value of sterling is already pushing up the cost of imports and raw materials.
Worse off because the main way to temper inflation is to raise interest rates, which will cause tens of thousands unable to cover their mortgage costs.
etc etc
Not what I was getting at. What made you suggest that all 17.4 million leave voters were fed up of being worse off?
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:30
Tissy
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What a load of old twaddle.
Firstly voting is a SECRET ballot, so how do they know who voted for either option?
If it's from a poll we all know how accurate these are!
How do they know if,of those that have died since the referendum, ACTUALLY voted?
They may not have bothered.

They should have kept this old rubbish until April 1st.
My mum passed away 6 weeks ago aged 91.

She was a postal voter who was firmly in the remain camp - so yes it's a load of twaddle
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:49
Mr Oleo Strut
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It's very simple.

Worse off in future years relative to where they would have been if we'd voted to stay in the UK.

Worse off because of the loss of economic synergies.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to punish the poorest in society.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to put through policies that reward the businesses which "lobby" them.
Worse off because of all the cuts to social funding.
Worse off because local governments will "double tax" their residents to make up for their budget shortfalls.
Worse off because the Tories will continue to cut corporation tax, using Brexit as an excuse to attract business, when passing the tax receipts from businesses to the public was their original aim anyway.
Worse off because further banking deregulation will intensify the forthcoming financial crash.
Worse off because all the businesses such as Google, Apple etc who are expanding in the UK post-referendum are the ones who avoid paying tax here, and are doing back room deals with the government.
Worse off because we're moving towards the imposition of trading tariffs, which will push up shop prices.
Worse off because the fall in the value of sterling is already pushing up the cost of imports and raw materials.
Worse off because the main way to temper inflation is to raise interest rates, which will cause tens of thousands unable to cover their mortgage costs.
etc etc
Quite right, a very good prognosis, thiswillbefun. I used to think Brexit was the accidental consequence of Cameron's incompetence and people's dislike of government austerity, but I'm beginning to think that I was wrong. I think the long-time loathing of the EU by right-wing extremist Tories and their press and business cronies has been promoted to con a gormless public to get power back - not for the benefit of the people - but for that of the Tory party. They want total sovereignty back so that they can exercise it as they have always done, in their own selfish interest. They don't give a fig about ordinary people. The slick Tory PR machine has worked. So, thiswillbefun, as the noose slowly tightens round the neck of real democracy in the UK who is going to listen to the cries of the hungry and the suffering? Nobody, I fear, unless a seismic change comes over the attitude of the Labour Party.
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:56
Mou Mou Land
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Quite right, a very good prognosis, thiswillbefun. I used to think Brexit was the accidental consequence of Cameron's incompetence and people's dislike of government austerity, but I'm beginning to think that I was wrong. I think the long-time loathing of the EU by right-wing extremist Tories and their press and business cronies has been promoted to con a gormless public to get power back - not for the benefit of the people - but for that of the Tory party. They want total sovereignty back so that they can exercise it as they have always done, in their own selfish interest. They don't give a fig about ordinary people. The slick Tory PR machine has worked. So, thiswillbefun, as the noose slowly tightens round the neck of real democracy in the UK who is going to listen to the cries of the hungry and the suffering? Nobody, I fear, unless a seismic change comes over the attitude of the Labour Party.
I hate to break it to you, but the northern constituencies who vote to leave in droves are not gormless - they are the ones on the end of the immigration and poverty debate.

The reason they voted to leave is because of the opinions of people like you, about them.
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Old 09-12-2016, 18:00
DianaFire
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But they couldn't have developed policies such as no FoM, for example, because the EU wouldn't have let them.
They had the power to cut non-EU immigration and didn't do it.

So because you thought the referendum a wrong process, a process of which the government said it would accept and act upon the result using the Royal Prerogative, you decided totake out a case against the government but subsequently dropped the idea, as did Miller an others, waiting instead to pounce the moment a "wrong" result came through.
I've no idea how you got all this out of a post I made saying I wish they had carried out an opinion poll instead.
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Old 09-12-2016, 18:17
Peter the Great
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My mum passed away 6 weeks ago aged 91.

She was a postal voter who was firmly in the remain camp - so yes it's a load of twaddle
Fair point. Condolences regarding your mum.
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Old 09-12-2016, 18:22
allaorta
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They had the power to cut non-EU immigration and didn't do it.



I've no idea how you got all this out of a post I made saying I wish they had carried out an opinion poll instead.
Since, almost to a man (and woman) the Remnants say the referendum is not binding and many of them say it is really only an opinion poll. See the direction of travel?
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Old 09-12-2016, 18:46
DianaFire
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Since, almost to a man (and woman) the Remnants say the referendum is not binding and many of them say it is really only an opinion poll. See the direction of travel?
It isn't binding; it wasn't an opinion poll (which is why I said I'd have preferred it it to be); and no, I don't.
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Old 09-12-2016, 18:49
Dacco
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It's very simple.

Worse off in future years relative to where they would have been if we'd voted to stay in the UK.

Worse off because of the loss of economic synergies.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to punish the poorest in society.
Worse off because the Tories will use Brexit as an excuse to put through policies that reward the businesses which "lobby" them.
Worse off because of all the cuts to social funding.
Worse off because local governments will "double tax" their residents to make up for their budget shortfalls.
Worse off because the Tories will continue to cut corporation tax, using Brexit as an excuse to attract business, when passing the tax receipts from businesses to the public was their original aim anyway.
Worse off because further banking deregulation will intensify the forthcoming financial crash.
Worse off because all the businesses such as Google, Apple etc who are expanding in the UK post-referendum are the ones who avoid paying tax here, and are doing back room deals with the government.
Worse off because we're moving towards the imposition of trading tariffs, which will push up shop prices.
Worse off because the fall in the value of sterling is already pushing up the cost of imports and raw materials.
Worse off because the main way to temper inflation is to raise interest rates, which will cause tens of thousands unable to cover their mortgage costs.
etc etc
Why on earth did you waste your time thinking up this BS, let alone post it. You need a hobby.
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Old 09-12-2016, 18:50
Video Nasty
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The young didn't have to wait for the Brexiters to die off, they simply had to get off their backsides and actually vote!
This.

What was the number of young voters that didn't bother?
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Old 09-12-2016, 18:52
d'@ve
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Agreed, so what? Leave won. When are remainers going to get over that?
Possibly soon after the bleating Brexiters get over the High Court decision to prevent May from triggering A 50 without a Parliamentary Bill?
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Old 09-12-2016, 20:40
Tissy
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Fair point. Condolences regarding your mum.

Thank you ... miss her dreadfully

She was very much against us leaving the EU and would sit there shouting at Farage etc., on tv
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Old 09-12-2016, 20:45
Annsyre
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This.

What was the number of young voters that didn't bother?
About three quarters of them.
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Old 09-12-2016, 21:10
B-29
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About three quarters of them.
But, But they would of voted remain so can the whining remainers have a recount please ?
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Old 09-12-2016, 21:17
Mr Oleo Strut
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I hate to break it to you, but the northern constituencies who vote to leave in droves are not gormless - they are the ones on the end of the immigration and poverty debate.

The reason they voted to leave is because of the opinions of people like you, about them.
Sadly, the poor souls are major recipients of EU support both financial and material. When that dries up they will come to bitterly regret their exposure to more post-Thatcherite Tory neglect and their decision to be misled by referendum spin and lies. And immigration - Mrs May's attempts to control this, both from the EU and elsewhere, have been a complete disaster, as is her stewardship of the country. She bears as much blame as David Cameron for this whole fiasco.
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Old 09-12-2016, 21:36
Lyricalis
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Why on earth did you waste your time thinking up this BS, let alone post it. You need a hobby.
I guess admitting to yourself that you and your ilk are responsible for accelerating the decline of the UK would be a truth you can't accept. Better to just get all aggressive and attack the realists.
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