This country -- and the rest of the Western world -- is going to continue on a death spiral for as long as this hypocitical bullplop about 'elites' continues.

They are history. UKIP has shown itself to be the true voice of the working classes and is the real opposition to the Tory party.

If we had proportional representation instead of the ridiculous FPTP system UKIP would have far more influence in Parliament.

Farage is the true voice of public schoolboys, bankers and right wing politicians. No-one is representing the interests of the working people.

Things will change very soon, and I think Labour will be OK if they get rid of Corbyn while keeping the forward-looking economic policies they have been developing. Build on that large increase in party membership in a way that's outward-looking rather than what currently looks like a cult. At least make it into a recruiting cult if it has to remain one .

The Tories won't have improved the economy one jot by the next General Election. In fact we'll probably be either stagnating or declining by then. Wages won't have improved. The housing situation won't have improved. The NHS and other public services will be in an even worse state. There will be jobs, but an increasing number will be paying poverty wages. People will be even more pissed off and the Tories will have lost their EU scapegoat, and they can only blame Labour for so long. Voters will lose patience with them.

UKIP will either have transformed themselves, as their current leader wants, into the party of the working class voter, or they'll be declining into irrelevance. I think the latter is likely, as I know plenty of working class people who simply won't support UKIP whatever the do. They're far more likely to either stop voting altogether or stick with fluctuating between Tories and Labour.

Once we leave the EU, the Lib Dem's campaign of resistance is unfortunately over. What is their point then?

Those glasses are too rose tinted. Should have gone to Specsavers.

"All" they have to do is get rid of Corbyn. Corbyn is un-get-riddable of. They did their pitiful best and he escaped unscathed. He will take Labour into the next election, and no matter how bad things are (and I agree - I think things will be pretty bad by then), the Tories will still romp it given that other than to the cult, Corbyn is utterly toxic. They may, or may not revive. That enlarged membership is all Corbyn clan. They won't hear a word against him, and the thought of them all rallying around a less inept leader is laughable.

There are going to be a LOT of votes looking for a home next time, and by no means all disgruntled and poor ex Labourites. UKIP hoovered up the lunatic right as much as was possible, and the least lunatic will drift back to the Tories. UKIP may well prosper in the Labour heartlands. In theory, it hasn't the intellectual capacity to develop realistic but radical policies that would address the needs of this demographic. That won't matter. We know only too well how susceptible the dim are to soundbite politics, and UKIP are good as a Sun headline at those.

As for "forward thinking economic policies", most of the country think they would bankrupt us in no time. And we are already bankrupt. The ground should be good for the LibDems. No matter that we will have left the EU. There is a large proportion of the population who are pro EU, and will prefer a party with a positive attitude compared to the rest of the rabble. Their main problem is that they are so diminished now, they struggle to get heard. It's why Richmond was massively important to them.

They will as usual be in listening mode and will be keen to ensure lessons are learned. And then they will carry on with exactly the same polices as before.

You are a laugh lecturing about intellect.

Your views on international affairs when you deliberately misspell laissez-faire and kowtow in a previous post are total classics.

It's strange that in an economy such as this that Labour are not miles ahead everywhere in England/Wales.

And it is Jeremy Corbyn who is the cause of this. Not his ideology but simply him.

The party leader needs to be the logo of the brand.

And replace him with who exactly?

Incorrect.

He recognises the impact of uncontrolled immigration on the working classes. He is the only politician who has done something to tackle this problem.

Actions speak louder than words.

Pretty much this.

The problem is that Labour was declining long before Corbyn became leader. The trust Labour earned over years was lost by Blair in the Iraq invasion and Miliband etc just meekly accepted the Tory fable that the recession was caused by Labour. You only need to look at Scotland to see the decline was well before Corbyn as well as the ridiculous decision by Harriet Hartman not to oppose Tory benefit cuts.

You are delusional if you think Farage represents anyone's interests other than his own. He has been scamming the EU for taxpayer money for years and not protecting the interets of U.K. Workers. Just look at his abysmal attendance on the fisheries committee to see he is all mouth and no trousers.

Still in denial I see
It's well documented that Gordon Brown was one of the 4 people responsible for the 2008 crash.
I have posted the proof for this many times.

"Is the Labour Party finished as a force in British politics?"

Yes, they have been since the 70s
New Labour however is a different story

As they say on "Dead Ringers"

Diane Abbott !!!!

The Labour Party no longer represents those who laboured for a living and whose working conditions were very poor indeed.

What, you mean the Tory Lite party lead by that evil war criminal?

Despite the fact the Blairites won three more GE's than Corbyn ever has or ever will, they still sneer.

To be honest, you can have the stupidest policies ever as long as you have someone that enough voters seem to find appealing fronting the campaign. Farage and Trump are good examples of this. Completely impractical policies, but sold by a good salesperson.

Are you John Harris?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...r-52-48-brexit

You've posted your opinion many times. There is a difference between opinion and proof.

I'm sure they'll find someone. I get the feeling a lot of interested candidates are biding their time until they see Corbyn's support weakening, but I think we're more likely to see someone from within Corbyn's circle grow to become his replacement.

At the moment there isn't a lot of trust in that party for alternative candidates from outside his circle. They'll look like another PLP plant if they propose policies in a similar vein to Corbyn, like the last one really. And those who sound Blairite simply won't stand a chance. I think there are many in that party who would rather it die than go back to that.

There's a genuine appetite in the Labour membership, especially amongst the younger members, for a new approach to politics. Whoever comes forward has to appeal to that side of the party, but be open enough to appeal to the rest too. Corbyn can't do that.

While it would be great to get rid of the Tories sooner rather than later, the future isn't really on their side. They're a dying party having one last burst of popularity before they enter terminal decline. Their members are dying off, their economic reputation is in ruins and the economic system they support is becoming more discredited each year.

People have been saying that about the Tories for generations. After 1906, they were "finished forever", after universal suffrage and working class enfranchisement there would "never again" be a Tory government, after 1945, they were "finished forever", after 1997 they were "finished forever".

They're still here (with a majority that people said they would "never" ever have again) and the so-called parties of "the future" and of "progress" - Labour and the Lib Dems are broken in pieces.

Labour's problem in 1983 was not the policies - many of the policies proposed were and are fairly resonant. Only nuclear disarmament stands out as a massive tactical error.

In 1983 the reasons Labour went down to disaster were the Falklands effect, which boosted the flagging Tories, and the rise of the SDP-Liberal Alliance, which split the anti-Conservative vote fatally. FPTP punishes splits.

Thatcher actually lost vote share in the election, but prospered due to other factors.

That's an odd argument. You're saying that the Tories aren't finished because they've had declining support in the past and then recovered, and then you claim Labour and the Lib Dems are broken in pieces, and yet they've also declined and grown again in the past.

The reason I think the Tories are in real trouble is because I think they'ill have to change far more than the other parties will have to in order to introduce policies that will stem the decline in the living standards of a growing percentage of the UK population. They'll need another person as transformative as Thatcher was to survive in the long term (also true of the other parties to some extent), and you can't predict if or when someone like that will arrive, and which party it'll happen to.