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Drone close to a jet at 11000 feet
albertd
09-12-2016
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38264696

Can drones really get up that high?
Thine Wonk
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by albertd:
“http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38264696

Can drones really get up that high?”

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/11000ft-dji...byists-1548057

The answer is only if they are modified by the owner and that is at the very extreme end of what is possible and they would have to immediately come back down again.

We should remember that the realistic chance of downing an aircraft is 0.000001% or something as occasionally birds fly into engines and destroy them and commercial airliners are not single engine and can safely shut down an engine and land as part of a well practiced and trained for situation.

I don't want people to take what I'm saying the wrong way, I think the drone owner should be prosecuted if found, but the danger to the aircraft is sometimes over stated by the press to make the public angry and to whip up a frenzy and get the article shared and read more. There are 166 million birds in the UK flying around, many of which weigh more that the small hobby drones.

No plane has ever been downed by a hobby drone, and probably never will for the reasons mentioned.
5hane
09-12-2016
Headline should read: Jet Close to Drone at 11000 feet.
Jet pilots should be more careful, these drones aren't cheap!
d'@ve
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“No plane has ever been downed by a hobby drone, and probably never will for the reasons mentioned.”

Oh it'll happen alright, it's just a matter of when. Drone shatters windscreen disabling both pilots; drone sucked into engine causing uncontained explosion and wing fuel tank fire; drone sucked into engine at the moment more power is required moments from touchdown with insufficent time to increase the other engine power to compensate; etc., etc.

Some idiot will do it, somewhere, some time. Not sure how we can stop it or catch the idiots though.
Doctor_Wibble
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Some idiot will do it, somewhere, some time.”

That's a certainty! And at a guess, parts of drones are going to be causing more damage than parts of birds, though that's going to depend on whether drones start to exhibit flocking behaviour or even fly in rudimentary formations. Do they migrate? That could get really tricky.

Quote:
“Not sure how we can stop it or catch the idiots though.”

Ban them! Ban everything and then work back from there. Obviously you'd want to look at un-banning normal aircraft first. And register every drone sale worldwide, make sure everyone using one has a drone pilot's licence...
Thine Wonk
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Oh it'll happen alright, it's just a matter of when. Drone shatters windscreen disabling both pilots; drone sucked into engine causing uncontained explosion and wing fuel tank fire; drone sucked into engine at the moment more power is required moments from touchdown with insufficent time to increase the other engine power to compensate; etc., etc.

Some idiot will do it, somewhere, some time. Not sure how we can stop it or catch the idiots though.”

As mentioned previously, there are twice as many birds in the UK as people, yet so few drones flown irrisponsibly. Aircraft are tested with frozen Turkeys which get fired into commercial aircraft windows under high velocity by compressed air, the same with the engines. The engine would be ruined, but that is why commercial aircraft are not single engine.

It has never happened, it is highly unlikely to ever happen due to the reasons mentioned above, even bird strikes are rare and much more dangerous if in flocks as there is the potential for multiple engines to be damaged.
Thine Wonk
09-12-2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp7uLTNiGrQ
Mustabuster
09-12-2016
Maybe they should make the drone owners pay for the engines they damage then. Maybe no a drone engine strike won't bring down an airliner but that doesn't mean that they should be allowed to fly the drones near aircraft. There will always be someone wanting to push the envelope just to see what happens just as there are idiots out there shining lasers at aircraft for the lols.
d'@ve
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“As mentioned previously, there are twice as many birds in the UK as people, yet so few drones flown irrisponsibly. Aircraft are tested with frozen Turkeys which get fired into commercial aircraft windows under high velocity by compressed air, the same with the engines. The engine would be ruined, but that is why commercial aircraft are not single engine.

It has never happened, it is highly unlikely to ever happen due to the reasons mentioned above, even bird strikes are rare and much more dangerous if in flocks as there is the potential for multiple engines to be damaged.”

Not tested with football sized drones though, are they. Give it enough time... I just hope nothing serious is caused by it when it happens.
Evo102
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Doctor_Wibble:
“Ban them! Ban everything and then work back from there. Obviously you'd want to look at un-banning normal aircraft first. And register every drone sale worldwide, make sure everyone using one has a drone pilot's licence...”

So my little nephew will need a pilots licence to fly his 6 inch diameter drone around his bedroom? Not sure he'd be best pleased at that news.

Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Not tested with football sized drones though, are they. Give it enough time... I just hope nothing serious comes out of it when it happens.”

Have you ever been up close to a Canada goose, a lot bigger and heavier than a football.
Thine Wonk
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Not tested with football sized drones though, are they. Give it enough time... I just hope nothing serious is caused by it when it happens.”

Did you see the video I posted? that is way more of a test than a small lightweight hobby drone.

The reason why the plane crashed in the Hudson river that time was because of a flock of geese, it was such a rare event that geese flew into both engines and disabled them, something which wouldn't happen with a drone.
howard h
09-12-2016
Think the problem is, like all tech, toys are thin on the ground (sorry, in the air) at first, then they double, and double, and soon everyone has one.

They are fun and produce spectacular videos - especially when they are 4k! - but would you like your holiday jet landing at Manchester where there are 1000 drones being flown around the immediate countryside? If people feel they are too small to be a threat (a) no doubt they will get bigger and heavier and (2) is there anywhere in the pilot's training manual which says "if you see a drone, fly into it?"
dreadnought
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“that is why commercial aircraft are not single engine.
”

Don't give Michael O'Leary any ideas
solarflare
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“Did you see the video I posted? that is way more of a test than a small lightweight hobby drone.

The reason why the plane crashed in the Hudson river that time was because of a flock of geese, it was such a rare event that geese flew into both engines and disabled them, something which wouldn't happen with a drone.”

Two drones, though...
noise747
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by albertd:
“http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38264696

Can drones really get up that high?”

some can, i seen a couple on you Tube that gets higher than that. i would not mind one myself, but no way would I fly it near airports. Would just be easier than putting the camera on the end of a boom arm for over head shots.
SaturnV
10-12-2016
The key point for me is that the people in the air have their lives on the line while the drone operator is only risking their Maplin birthday present.
Supratad
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/11000ft-dji...byists-1548057

The answer is only if they are modified by the owner and that is at the very extreme end of what is possible and they would have to immediately come back down again.

We should remember that the realistic chance of downing an aircraft is 0.000001% or something as occasionally birds fly into engines and destroy them and commercial airliners are not single engine and can safely shut down an engine and land as part of a well practiced and trained for situation.

I don't want people to take what I'm saying the wrong way, I think the drone owner should be prosecuted if found, but the danger to the aircraft is sometimes over stated by the press to make the public angry and to whip up a frenzy and get the article shared and read more. There are 166 million birds in the UK flying around, many of which weigh more that the small hobby drones.

No plane has ever been downed by a hobby drone, and probably never will for the reasons mentioned.”

Indeed, the press made a big thing of a drone being close to the Flying Scotsman when it ran this year. I think it might of actually hit it. They seemed to be appalled by this incident.

Small plastic device hits 100 tonne loco, minor paint scuff to be rubbed off by engineers jacket sleeve in full restoration project.
albertd
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by noise747:
“some can, i seen a couple on you Tube that gets higher than that. i would not mind one myself, but no way would I fly it near airports. Would just be easier than putting the camera on the end of a boom arm for over head shots.”

Mind you, if we we're talking about up to 11000 feet, you don't need to be anywhere near an airport to find aircraft at or below that height on a very regular basis. That covers virtually the whole of the SE of England just for starters, not to mention within about 50 miles of any of the many other airports around the UK.
noise747
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by albertd:
“Mind you, if we we're talking about up to 11000 feet, you don't need to be anywhere near an airport to find aircraft at or below that height on a very regular basis. That covers virtually the whole of the SE of England just for starters, not to mention within about 50 miles of any of the many other airports around the UK.”

That is true, but i would not fly it that high either.
artnada
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp7uLTNiGrQ”

Actual bird strike on take off
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KhZwsYtNDE
Doctor_Wibble
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by Evo102:
“So my little nephew will need a pilots licence to fly his 6 inch diameter drone around his bedroom? Not sure he'd be best pleased at that news.”

No problem, he wouldn't care because it's the parents that would have to do all the paperwork and take responsibility for all/any damage and inconvenience caused by flying it through people's windows, causing avalanches, stampeding cattle etc. Or tick an 'indoors only' box?

Or have a strictly enforced age limit, see also paperwork requirements, burden on responsible adults, result being nobody except those with butlers will buy them and they could just buy their own airspace from the local air traffic control. And once they've spent all that money, ban the things completely on the grounds that previously it has been punishing the poor because they couldn't afford them and it's only fair that the fines for possession are punitively huge.
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