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Ignoring Fare Evaders Can Make Mass Transit Faster—And Richer
JasonWatkins
09-12-2016
This is fascinating.

Quote:
“IN OSLO, IT began with a defective gate, the kind of thing that sings “lawsuit!” in America. In the Norwegian capital’s metro system, in 2005, newly installed turnstiles began to trap unsuspecting riders. “If you had a carriage or a baby stroller, you could get stuck,” Christian Fjær, who oversees the local transit authority’s payment operations, said at an event hosted by the research group TransitCenter last month.

So the enterprising Norwegians had an idea: Don’t just ditch the malfunctioning hardware. Ditch the turnstiles and gates altogether, along with the idea of physical barriers that demand payment.

It’s not so radical. By nixing fare gates, public transit agencies emphasize ease of access over making every last rider pay. Europe got into “proof of payment” systems—where wandering personnel request evidence you paid your way—in the 1960s. They made it to American shores, mostly in light rail systems, by the 1990s.

Now, 21st century tech is making it easier than ever to blow up the turnstile. Modernized, cash-free fare payment methods—like reloadable tap-and-go cards, or apps that let riders use smartphones to get tickets, Apple Pay-style—speed up boarding. Passengers don’t have to struggle past fare gates. They can board through any door, instead of pushing through a bus’s front entrance to pay the driver.

The result: Faster vehicles, less crowding, and thus more frequent service, leading (hopefully) to more riders overall. Meanwhile, data collected from systems using modernized proof of payment methods don’t show fare evasion skyrocketing. People, it turns out, mostly follow the rules—especially if they know getting caught in a spot check carries a hefty fine.”

https://www.wired.com/2016/12/ignori...faster-richer/

As with most forward thinking ideas, I doubt we'll ever see it in this country though.
Jellied Eel
09-12-2016
That's pretty much how it's done in Prague. Buy ticket, get it stamped if necessary and stroll onto a train.. But if you don't, ticket inspectors can give you a large fine.

Even during rush hour, there's none of the crush & station closures due to congestion with people trying to get through the barriers.
St Dabeoc
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by JasonWatkins:
“This is fascinating.



https://www.wired.com/2016/12/ignori...faster-richer/

As with most forward thinking ideas, I doubt we'll ever see it in this country though.”

the reason we don't have these forward thinking things, as you put it, is because we (the population) are too crap for them
Thine Wonk
09-12-2016
I want everyone to pay, if it means I have to be slightly inconvenienced I don't care. There are a small percentage of piss takers in this world and sadly that's why we can't have nice things. I'd rather make sure we stop the freeloaders who go through life letting other people pay for everything.
LostFool
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jellied Eel:
“That's pretty much how it's done in Prague. Buy ticket, get it stamped if necessary and stroll onto a train.. But if you don't, ticket inspectors can give you a large fine.

Even during rush hour, there's none of the crush & station closures due to congestion with people trying to get through the barriers.”

The Newcastle Metro didn't have ticket barriers for many years but they have recently been introduced at the busier stations.

Berlin also doesn't have barriers. They just expect people to be honest and the fines if you get caught fare dodging are big enough for it not to be worth taking the risk.
Andrue
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by JasonWatkins:
“This is fascinating.”

And a mis-leading thread title. The article is not saying that dodging fares improves mass transit. It's just say that fares should be collected without using barriers.

Quote:
“As with most forward thinking ideas, I doubt we'll ever see it in this country though.”

What makes you say that? We often adopt high-tech solutions. Britain is a very modern country, too modern if anything with a tendency to push things off to automation that would be better handled by a human with some sense.
JasonWatkins
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Andrue:
“And a mis-leading thread title. The article is not saying that dodging fares improves mass transit. It's just say that fares should be collected without using barriers.”

If you'd read the article, it says this ..

Quote:
“San Francisco’s Muni system is one of the most the recent to fling open the fare gates and make the switch to all-door boarding”

Quote:
“It worked. In tourist-heavy areas, the system’s bus and streetcar dwell times per stop dropped 13 percent. Before, each person getting on or off needed 6.8 seconds. Now, they take 3. 5 seconds. Multiply those moments of savings by every rider boarding and alighting at every stop on every bus line, and you’ve got hundreds of hours of extra time per year. All from opening up the back doors.

The cheaters are still along for the ride, according to Muni’s latest data. But the agency’s surveys found fare evasion dropped from nearly 10 percent in 2009 to 7.9 percent in 2014. The resulting estimated loss in revenue fell from $19.2 million to $17.1 million.

That tracks with Oslo’s experience, where the public transit system also liberated all metros from fare gates. By making it easier for riders to pay for tickets through their phones, the system halved its fare evasion rates, to five percent”

So it's not "misleading" at all - there's actual proof that it works and results in the transport companies increasing revenue.

Originally Posted by Andrue:
“What makes you say that? We often adopt high-tech solutions. Britain is a very modern country, too modern if anything with a tendency to push things off to automation that would be better handled by a human with some sense.”

This would too far "out there" for this country to consider.
Andrue
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by JasonWatkins:
“If you'd read the article, it says this ..”

And you have yourself highlighted the bit where it says fair dodging dropped.

The article is saying that if you remove barriers and make it easier for people to pay there will be a reduction in fare dodging.

It does not say that ignoring fair dodging will make mass transit faster.
Quote:
“This would too far "out there" for this country to consider.”

I don't think so. Mass transit in the UK is run by dozens of private companies and councils. They will each do what they consider best. It has nothing to do with 'this country'.
Ads
09-12-2016
It is worth noting that London Underground is much more expensive than most other foreign transit networks - I am pretty sure fare evasion would rise if turnstiles were removed here.

In places like Berlin it seems that loads of people don't bother paying!
Tassium
09-12-2016
Bait and switch "reporting" from Wired.

I imagine it's sponsored.
JasonWatkins
09-12-2016
Originally Posted by Andrue:
“It does not say that ignoring fair dodging will make mass transit faster..”

Quote:
“In tourist-heavy areas, the system’s bus and streetcar dwell times per stop dropped 13 percent. Before, each person getting on or off needed 6.8 seconds. Now, they take 3. 5 seconds. Multiply those moments of savings by every rider boarding and alighting at every stop on every bus line, and you’ve got hundreds of hours of extra time per year.”

No, it clearly doesn't say anything of the sort ..

Originally Posted by Tassium:
“I imagine it's sponsored.”

Nope. Christian Fjaer on video talking about it.

https://vimeo.com/191676519
sodavlac
09-12-2016
So it's just like the tram system in Manchester then? No barriers here either. We do sometimes have ticket inspectors making sure you've paid and you get fined if you haven't. That happens in Oslo too according to this - http://goscandinavia.about.com/od/ci...on-In-Oslo.htm
TrollHunter
10-12-2016
So basically the DLR in Docklands then?
eggchen
10-12-2016
I was in Oslo recently and used the Flytojet express train from the airport into Oslo. Pay at the machine at the airport station with your card, and on you go. Every ten minutes, on the dot. Fast, efficient, quiet and modern service. Superb.
LostFool
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by eggchen:
“I was in Oslo recently and used the Flytojet express train from the airport into Oslo. Pay at the machine at the airport station with your card, and on you go. Every ten minutes, on the dot. Fast, efficient, quiet and modern service. Superb.”

The real Oslo airport is great but you should avoid "Oslo" Torp which is used by Ryanair and some other budget airlines. It's an old military base in the middle of nowhere and is a 2.5hr bus ride from Oslo city centre.
CSJB
10-12-2016
In the eighties the rail network around the East Midlands was mostly like this.
It was great, I travelled everywhere for free until a ticket inspector caught me.
I was arrested by the transport police and cautioned for fraud
Fortunately I was still a juvenile at the time so it wasn't a big deal.
Some people will always abuse the system if they can get away with it.
Ber
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jellied Eel:
“That's pretty much how it's done in Prague. Buy ticket, get it stamped if necessary and stroll onto a train.. But if you don't, ticket inspectors can give you a large fine.

Even during rush hour, there's none of the crush & station closures due to congestion with people trying to get through the barriers.”

I fell foul of this in Budapest. Got onto the train not realising I was supposed to have used a separate machine on the platform to validate the ticket I had just bought from the ticket office
razorback Tony
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jellied Eel:
“That's pretty much how it's done in Prague. Buy ticket, get it stamped if necessary and stroll onto a train.. But if you don't, ticket inspectors can give you a large fine. ”

Year ago, before you could get a train to virtually anywhere in Germany from the airport at Hannover, I landed there, and took a local train to Hannover Hauptbahnoff.
There, I bought a ticket to Paderborn, from an English speaking counter clerk, who also told me which platform to go to.
While waiting on the platform, I was approached by a guy in a Deutsche Bahn uniform who held his hand out and politely said, "Fahrkarten Bitte."
I knew that fahrkarten meant tickets, so I fished it out to show him.
He said something in German that foxed me, so I said, in English, "I'm sorry, I don't speak much German."
He gave me a friendly smile, and in an accent similar to a BBC newsreader said, "You have to validate your ticket in the little machines on the platform, if you don't, you could be using the same one every day."
He took me to one of the little boxes, attached to columns on the platform, inserted my ticket in a slot, and it came back one second later, with that day's date stamped on it.
He then showed me to a spot to stand at on the platform, saying that the carriage that stopped there was almost always empty, and I'd be almost guaranteed a seat.
TerraCanis
10-12-2016
Quote:
“People, it turns out, mostly follow the rules—especially if they know getting caught in a spot check carries a hefty fine. ”

So they don't appear to be "ignoring fare dodging" so much as switching the means of enforcement to alternative methods. These involve sampling passengers for compliance instead of impeding the free movement all all passengers for automatic checks.
Ber
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by TerraCanis:
“So they don't appear to be "ignoring fare dodging" so much as switching the means of enforcement to alternative methods. These involve sampling passengers for compliance instead of impeding the free movement all all passengers for automatic checks.”

I might be naive but I am a believer (in most cases) in trusting people to follow the rules but coming down hard on those caught taking the piss instead of treating everyone with 'suspicion'.
mattlamb
10-12-2016
And if everyone fare-dodged, then there would be no public transport to use., would there?

Surely this is just an argument against using equipment when a human can do the job of collecting payments from travellers?
LostFool
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by mattlamb:
“And if everyone fare-dodged, then there would be no public transport to use., would there?

Surely this is just an argument against using equipment when a human can do the job of collecting payments from travellers?”

Machines don't take sickies, go on strike or require pensions.
mattlamb
10-12-2016
Originally Posted by LostFool:
“Machines don't take sickies, go on strike or require pensions.”

Indeed.
And they also can;t understand how humans minds might work.

They also probably break down before humans do, in many cases too.
bollywood
10-12-2016
In some cities, catching those who commit minor crimes means finding they were wanted for a serious crime.
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