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Paedo hunters - should the police be working more closely with vigilantes?


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Old 10-12-2016, 10:54
blueblade
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For some time now, so called and self styled paedophile hunters have been using the internet to pose as teenagers and set up amateur sting operations to trap older men seeking to meet young teenage girls. There is no doubting that some have succeeded in bringing a few offenders to justice earlier than they otherwise might have been.

Senior police condemn these groups saying they interfere with their operations, and that they place both themselves and the public at risk during confrontations. But apparently some officers are taking a pragmatic approach, and increasingly working with them, whilst the courts accept the evidence they put forward.

Policing official Vera Baird believes that the police can't pretend these groups don't exist, and is calling for closer links between them.

The hunters themselves, see their role as an adjunct to the police, who they perceive as not having sufficient resources themselves to fully pursue the offenders.

I've got very very mixed feelings about what they do. On the one hand, yes, they are helping. On the other......well who knows what trouble they might cause.

Thoughts of the forum?

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Old 10-12-2016, 11:06
EvieJ
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I'm with you, I have very mixed feelings about it.

I don't agree with vigilantism and don't think they should be involved in a confrontation, I don't thing they should be able to go public with their suspicions/findings either. Its a very emotive subject and guilt should be determined in a court of law, communities exacting revenge on a 'suspect' is and should be treated as a criminal offence. Then theres the issue of entrapment, a case against a genuine paedophile could be lost because of it.

On the other hand, some of the evidence they gather has proved to be helpful in convicting and reducing the threat of perpetrators.

Best thing, gather the evidence then hand it to the police, let them deal with it.
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:08
Sport1
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Don't legitimise them, it will create an industry which will be abused. If people have evidence, hand it to the police.
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:13
netcurtains
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I think they should give their heads a wobble and leave police work to the police.
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:21
Evo102
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Some of them are almost as bad as those they pursue.
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:33
Ber
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Don't legitimise them, it will create an industry which will be abused. If people have evidence, hand it to the police.
This, really. If their aim was truly to bring paedos to justice then they would have no issue in simply handing their evidence to the police and allow them to deal with it.

Filming and uploading confrontations just smacks of 'look how great we are' to me and could also potentially affect any prosecutions, right to fair trial and so on.
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:40
Mark39London
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No, under no circumstances.

People who do this do not know what official investigations are on-going and do not have the necessary knowledge of the law and legalities surrounding evidence building.

They also have no powers to sneak around private property, snoop illegally or impersonate others in the pursuit of their prey.

Once you make an exception, you will open a door to vigilantes, who have their own agenda and their own prejudices.
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:56
Deep Purple
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This, really. If their aim was truly to bring paedos to justice then they would have no issue in simply handing their evidence to the police and allow them to deal with it.

Filming and uploading confrontations just smacks of 'look how great we are' to me and could also potentially affect any prosecutions, right to fair trial and so on.
I agree. I saw a couple on the news last night, and I wouldn't trust them, or their motives.

They seem to be in it for their own publicity, with no regard for procedures, and with no control about how they gather their "evidence".
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:01
Ber
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You have adult paedo hunters pretending to be children to entice another adult into meeting up with them.

Out of interest if the other adult turns out to be a kid lying about their age too, could the adult paedo hunter find themselves in trouble legally?
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:19
Ashenden
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Some of them are almost as bad as those they pursue.
It's a bit like the beating up of 'nonces' in prison. Sometimes people have a need to find and punish those they can perceive as worse than themselves.

More of a 'feel good' factor rather than genuine outrage.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:21
Paul237
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I find them a bit odd and I doubt their motives sometimes.

I mean, if their work means at least one child doesn't get abused then it's hard to criticise them per se, but sometimes it feels as though they do it more for themselves and their own image than for the children they supposedly protect.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:26
Kid B
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These people infringe the work of the police and impair the normal mechanism of the court case later on.

We would encourage and support anything that helps protect children, of course. But vigilantism is not the way.

A documentary I saw last year on this showed the kind of people who do this vigilantism wouldn't look out of place on a football terrace.

Under the guise of doing what they believe is an extremely good and necessary cause, maybe they just want to get themselves noticed in the media.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:36
BanglaRoad
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Don't legitimise them, it will create an industry which will be abused. If people have evidence, hand it to the police.
Agree.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:44
Lumstorm
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Some of these people just seem to want attention. These investigations should be left to the police. Vigilantes might endanger a court case and of course there's the danger that they out someone who is innocent look at how the mainstream media treated Chris Jefferies, nobody should have to go through what he suffered.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:48
Doctor_Wibble
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Out of interest if the other adult turns out to be a kid lying about their age too, could the adult paedo hunter find themselves in trouble legally?
Quite possibly, and as an added bonus if they are both 'paedo hunters' there's even a good chance of a punch-up as they both accuse each other of being a paedo and the whole thing gets filmed by their respective teams.

So how do they establish the truth as to who is or is not the 'paedo hunter'? If there's a sign or some sort of proof that happens, what's to stop a real one pretending they are actually a well-disguised vigilante?
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:55
EvieJ
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I'm not sure its just about the attention for everyone.

I'm sure there are some who are enraged by it, perhaps because of personal experience. For others, its quite an unhealthy thing to be obsessed by. Were the tactics used in other walks of life it would be seen as quite sinister maybe paedo hunting can be seen as a justifiable outlet for their actions.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:58
blueblade
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I'm not sure its just about the attention for everyone.

I'm sure there are some who are enraged by it, perhaps because of personal experience. For others, its quite an unhealthy thing to be obsessed by. Were the tactics used in other walks of life it would be seen as quite sinister maybe paedo hunting can be seen as a justifiable outlet for their actions.
I suppose the argument here is that if they're going to do it anyway, might it not be better for them to work more closely with the police, a) so they can get some guidance as to how best to handle situations, and b) so they don't impinge on cases already being looked at.
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Old 10-12-2016, 13:04
EvieJ
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I suppose the argument here is that if they're going to do it anyway, might it not be better for them to work more closely with the police, a) so they can get some guidance as to how best to handle situations, and b) so they don't impinge on cases already being looked at.
In an ideal world, but a) who are they accountable to if they do overstep the boundaries and b) would it mean sharing intelligence with them?
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Old 10-12-2016, 13:18
barbeler
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It could be useful to allow it, as long as it is made a criminal offence to upload any footage taken to social media. That would help to eliminate the antics of some of the ego-tripping self-publicists who seem to be glorify in setting themselves up as judge and jury.
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Old 10-12-2016, 13:54
Elyan
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Of the 42 sex-cases that have been convicted on the back of evidence that these men have presented to the Police, NONE were on Police radar.

If it was not for the actions of these men, those perverts would still be out there hunting kids to abuse.

More power to their elbow.
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Old 10-12-2016, 14:04
Kid B
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Of the 42 sex-cases that have been convicted on the back of evidence that these men have presented to the Police, NONE were on Police radar.

If it was not for the actions of these men, those perverts would still be out there hunting kids to abuse.

More power to their elbow.
Where is the proof of this? And which men do you refer to?
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Old 10-12-2016, 14:10
Elyan
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Where is the proof of this? And which men do you refer to?
The men gave the figures on TV yesterday morning. The Police were on the same program and did not dispute it.

I believe the group are called The Hunted Ones. They are headed by two fellows called Bradstock and Walters-Bleach.
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Old 10-12-2016, 14:14
TerraCanis
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Quite possibly, and as an added bonus if they are both 'paedo hunters' there's even a good chance of a punch-up as they both accuse each other of being a paedo and the whole thing gets filmed by their respective teams.

So how do they establish the truth as to who is or is not the 'paedo hunter'? If there's a sign or some sort of proof that happens, what's to stop a real one pretending they are actually a well-disguised vigilante?
If "they" are the police, stand back until they've finished, scrape the leftovers off the floor, and let the courts decide.
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Old 10-12-2016, 14:15
Sifter22
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The police can never really doing anything as the child that was being groomed on the internet doesn't exist.
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Old 10-12-2016, 14:16
GusGus
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I thought that evidence obtained from agent provocateurs was banned in court cases
In any case, these people or busybodies become pains in the backside. You see them on programmes about parking or speeding - power crazy
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