|
||||||||
Paedo hunters - should the police be working more closely with vigilantes? |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#26 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tea and toast
Posts: 411
|
Quote:
The men gave the figures on TV yesterday morning. The Police were on the same program and did not dispute it.
I believe the group are called The Hunted Ones. They are headed by two fellows called Bradstock and Walters-Bleach. |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#27 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,630
|
Quote:
The police can never really doing anything as the child that was being groomed on the internet doesn't exist.
Quote:
I thought that evidence obtained from agent provocateurs was banned in court cases
|
|
|
|
|
|
#28 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,186
|
What's potentially interesting here is that their antics generally would not be allowed to be carried out by the police due to the possibility of entrapment.
As it is, private parties can generally not entrap under UK law, only the police or their agents. Therefore, if they were to starting working with the police they'd probably find it much harder to submit their evidence. |
|
|
|
|
|
#29 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Darn Sarf
Posts: 28,730
|
This is a job for the police, for reasons already mentioned. If it were to spread, it would be just a matter of time before it was used *by someone or some group* as a cover for... guess what? And claiming '42 successes' or whatever means nothing without the full facts being revealed, which ain't gonna happen.
Police work is best done by the police. |
|
|
|
|
|
#30 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern East Anglia
Posts: 75,216
|
Quote:
I thought that evidence obtained from agent provocateurs was banned in court cases
In any case, these people or busybodies become pains in the backside. You see them on programmes about parking or speeding - power crazy Quote:
Senior police are highly critical of such groups, claiming they pose a danger to the public, put active police investigations at risk, and put themselves and the public at risk during confrontations, as well as real children who may actually be being abused. Are you suggesting that clear evidence of intent of child abuse should be ignored by the authorities, dependent on who garners the evidence?
Yet rank-and-file officers are increasingly working with them and courts are accepting the evidence they put forward. |
|
|
|
|
|
#31 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,869
|
Quote:
This is a job for the police, for reasons already mentioned. If it were to spread, it would be just a matter of time before it was used *by someone or some group* as a cover for... guess what? And claiming '42 successes' or whatever means nothing without the full facts being revealed, which ain't gonna happen.
Police work is best done by the police. |
|
|
|
|
|
#32 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,186
|
Quote:
If they were doing it to the maximum, they would already be investigating the perverts that these men are exposing. But the fact is, they are not.
That said, I am not aware of any appeals on the basis of evidence in these cases. Indeed, most cases - including all three cited in the BBC article - the people in question all pleaded guilty so evidence was not questioned even at the first instance, let alone at the higher level courts. |
|
|
|
|
|
#33 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Darn Sarf
Posts: 28,730
|
Quote:
If they were doing it to the maximum, they would already be investigating the perverts that these men are exposing. But the fact is, they are not.
Dangerous drivers, shoplifters and other thieves, muggers, murderers and goodness knows who else would be next and would give the Government even more excuses to underfund the police, who should be doing the investigatory work. If they think they've come across a criminal, just report it to the police like everyone else and if too many people are getting away with crime, demonstrate and lobby Parliament to do something about the underfunding! |
|
|
|
|
|
#34 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 626
|
A chief constable was on Breakfast this morning and he commented that police forces were struggling to cope with allegations of child abuse, and along came all the allegations about young footballers
It's begging to look as if this Country is a hive of sexual abuse of youngsters, are/were any safe? |
|
|
|
|
|
#35 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern East Anglia
Posts: 75,216
|
Quote:
That's a separate issue of under-resourcing, not an excuse for every Tom Dick and Harry to start hunting criminals... or people they *think* are criminals, or maybe just want to get even with for some random reason.
Dangerous drivers, shoplifters and other thieves, muggers, murderers and goodness knows who else would be next and would give the Government even more excuses to underfund the police, who should be doing the investigatory work. If they think they've come across a criminal, just report it to the police like everyone else and if too many people are getting away with crime, demonstrate and lobby Parliament to do something about the underfunding! |
|
|
|
|
|
#36 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,854
|
Whenever you see these hunters on the news or on youtube they look like the dodgiest people ever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#37 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,869
|
Quote:
That's a separate issue of under-resourcing, not an excuse for every Tom Dick and Harry to start hunting criminals... or people they *think* are criminals, or maybe just want to get even with for some random reason.
Dangerous drivers, shoplifters and other thieves, muggers, murderers and goodness knows who else would be next and would give the Government even more excuses to underfund the police, who should be doing the investigatory work. If they think they've come across a criminal, just report it to the police like everyone else and if too many people are getting away with crime, demonstrate and lobby Parliament to do something about the underfunding! |
|
|
|
|
|
#38 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 50,183
|
Quote:
The police can never really doing anything as the child that was being groomed on the internet doesn't exist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#39 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Darn Sarf
Posts: 28,730
|
Quote:
Which is precisely what these people are doing.
You have to ask the question why do these wannabe crime fighters choose to engage *only* with people they think are online paedos? Why not muggers, pimps, drug dealers or even terrorists, criminals in general? |
|
|
|
|
|
#40 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,186
|
Quote:
That's a point. Is it illegal to talk sexually to a non-existent person?
The BBC cases cited are charged with two different offences. One was charged with with causing or inciting a child to engage in sexual activity, in which the person incited must be under 16. In that instance I don't believe they committed any offence as the 'child' was not under 16. However, as he pleaded guilty, it was not tested. In other cases cited by the BBC, people have been charged with the far more powerful offence of arranging or facilitating commission of a child sex offence, which essentially makes it an offence to plan something that would be a child sex offence were it carried out. In other words, there doesn't need to be a real child involved. So really, it depends on charge. |
|
|
|
|
|
#41 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 22,335
|
Quote:
Of the 42 sex-cases that have been convicted on the back of evidence that these men have presented to the Police, NONE were on Police radar.
If it was not for the actions of these men, those perverts would still be out there hunting kids to abuse. More power to their elbow. The police can't be expected to magically know who is or isn't a pervert. |
|
|
|
|
|
#42 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 22,335
|
Quote:
If they were doing it to the maximum, they would already be investigating the perverts that these men are exposing. But the fact is, they are not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#43 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Deep Within The Chain Of Evil
Posts: 51,280
|
Quote:
If they were doing it to the maximum, they would already be investigating the perverts that these men are exposing. But the fact is, they are not.
If a few cases produce some evidence that is not tarnished, and can be used, then the police will be able to use it, as they are from other sources of information. In such cases, those people are called witnesses, not "hunters". I would suspect many of these "hunter" cases do do not end up going anywhere, because the rules of evidence, and the burden of proof are not there. If these people are so concerned about crime, they should apply to become Special Constables, and learn how it really works. |
|
|
|
|
|
#44 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7,409
|
Quote:
If these people are so concerned about crime, they should apply to become Special Constables, and learn how it really works.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#45 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 224
|
Quote:
The men gave the figures on TV yesterday morning. The Police were on the same program and did not dispute it.
I believe the group are called The Hunted Ones. They are headed by two fellows called Bradstock and Walters-Bleach. If they want to do some good, and make their community a better place, why don't they join the police force? Not enough fame and glory, perhaps? |
|
|
|
|
|
#46 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,869
|
Quote:
I think most people know how under staffed the police are to be able to cope with the amount of work out there. They are also tied to very strict investigatory methods, and procedures, which these vigilantes are not.
If a few cases produce some evidence that is not tarnished, and can be used, then the police will be able to use it, as they are from other sources of information. In such cases, those people are called witnesses, not "hunters". I would suspect many of these "hunter" cases do do not end up going anywhere, because the rules of evidence, and the burden of proof are not there. If these people are so concerned about crime, they should apply to become Special Constables, and learn how it really works. Being white, male, and not gay, I doubt they'd get a look in. |
|
|
|
|
|
#47 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,869
|
Quote:
So how are they being convicted then?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#48 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,733
|
Don't a lot of these sort of things lead to just a few years on the register and even less time in the prison?
Since they don't have the powers the police have they must let the person go away and if theres any evidence that could seriously do them for a long stretch it'll be destroyed by the time the police get to the house and probably as well they'll of alerted their friends and thus everyone goes to ground. |
|
|
|
|
|
#49 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,273
|
Quote:
That's a point. Is it illegal to talk sexually to a non-existent person?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#50 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,733
|
Quote:
Yes it is.
|
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:49.



