Appreciate that Elyan, I couldn't find anything online about it.

Excellent points

What's potentially interesting here is that their antics generally would not be allowed to be carried out by the police due to the possibility of entrapment.

As it is, private parties can generally not entrap under UK law, only the police or their agents.

Therefore, if they were to starting working with the police they'd probably find it much harder to submit their evidence.

This is a job for the police, for reasons already mentioned. If it were to spread, it would be just a matter of time before it was used *by someone or some group* as a cover for... guess what? And claiming '42 successes' or whatever means nothing without the full facts being revealed, which ain't gonna happen.

Police work is best done by the police.

From the link:-


Are you suggesting that clear evidence of intent of child abuse should be ignored by the authorities, dependent on who garners the evidence?

If they were doing it to the maximum, they would already be investigating the perverts that these men are exposing. But the fact is, they are not.

But as I just mentioned, police have to be careful doing the same as these guys do because they can fall foul of entrapment. It's much harder for private parties to carry out in entrapment under England & Wales law.

That said, I am not aware of any appeals on the basis of evidence in these cases.

Indeed, most cases - including all three cited in the BBC article - the people in question all pleaded guilty so evidence was not questioned even at the first instance, let alone at the higher level courts.

That's a separate issue of under-resourcing, not an excuse for every Tom Dick and Harry to start hunting criminals... or people they *think* are criminals, or maybe just want to get even with for some random reason.

Dangerous drivers, shoplifters and other thieves, muggers, murderers and goodness knows who else would be next and would give the Government even more excuses to underfund the police, who should be doing the investigatory work. If they think they've come across a criminal, just report it to the police like everyone else and if too many people are getting away with crime, demonstrate and lobby Parliament to do something about the underfunding!

A chief constable was on Breakfast this morning and he commented that police forces were struggling to cope with allegations of child abuse, and along came all the allegations about young footballers
It's begging to look as if this Country is a hive of sexual abuse of youngsters, are/were any safe?

But if they're going to do it anyway - and I see no prospect of them packing up, nor of their evidence being ignored - then surely it would be sensible for the police to work with them?

Whenever you see these hunters on the news or on youtube they look like the dodgiest people ever.

Which is precisely what these people are doing.

That's a point. Is it illegal to talk sexually to a non-existent person?

No it isn't. They are conducting active 'investigations' and attempting to gather evidence, including using methods akin to entrapment, IIRC. That's a completely different situation from suspecting that you've encountered a crime by chance and immediately reporting it - which is what we the citizens are supposed to do.

You have to ask the question why do these wannabe crime fighters choose to engage *only* with people they think are online paedos? Why not muggers, pimps, drug dealers or even terrorists, criminals in general?

It's interesting.

The BBC cases cited are charged with two different offences.

One was charged with with causing or inciting a child to engage in sexual activity, in which the person incited must be under 16.

In that instance I don't believe they committed any offence as the 'child' was not under 16.

However, as he pleaded guilty, it was not tested.

In other cases cited by the BBC, people have been charged with the far more powerful offence of arranging or facilitating commission of a child sex offence, which essentially makes it an offence to plan something that would be a child sex offence were it carried out. In other words, there doesn't need to be a real child involved.

So really, it depends on charge.

Perhaps they weren't on the police radar because no one had bothered to report their suspicions to the police?

The police can't be expected to magically know who is or isn't a pervert.

So how are they being convicted then?

I think most people know how under staffed the police are to be able to cope with the amount of work out there. They are also tied to very strict investigatory methods, and procedures, which these vigilantes are not.

If a few cases produce some evidence that is not tarnished, and can be used, then the police will be able to use it, as they are from other sources of information. In such cases, those people are called witnesses, not "hunters".

I would suspect many of these "hunter" cases do do not end up going anywhere, because the rules of evidence, and the burden of proof are not there.

If these people are so concerned about crime, they should apply to become Special Constables, and learn how it really works.

Have you seen some of these vigilante paedo hunters? Would you want them on the force? (In fact the criminal histories of many of them probably preclude them applying).

Were these the guys on This Morning?
If they want to do some good, and make their community a better place, why don't they join the police force?

Not enough fame and glory, perhaps?

I believe they are from London.

Being white, male, and not gay, I doubt they'd get a look in.

Because these members of the public are taking the initiative and doing all the leg work.

Don't a lot of these sort of things lead to just a few years on the register and even less time in the prison?

Since they don't have the powers the police have they must let the person go away and if theres any evidence that could seriously do them for a long stretch it'll be destroyed by the time the police get to the house and probably as well they'll of alerted their friends and thus everyone goes to ground.

Yes it is.

Could make sex a bit awkard...going oh god!!! could get you nicked