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Paedo hunters - should the police be working more closely with vigilantes?


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Old 10-12-2016, 18:28
BanglaRoad
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I believe they are from London.

Being white, male, and not gay, I doubt they'd get a look in.
What a pathetic comment.
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Old 10-12-2016, 18:39
Monkey_Moo
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Could make sex a bit awkard...going oh god!!! could get you nicked
In the context of what this thread is about - grooming - no victim is required, just an intention to find one.

The conversation they have, and the fact that the turn up, can prove the intent.

If you think about it, that's actually pretty sensible. You should not have to wait for a victim before being able to act to stop someone.
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Old 10-12-2016, 18:41
Ber
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Because these members of the public are taking the initiative and doing all the leg work.
So these people are deliberately bypassing the police?
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Old 10-12-2016, 18:49
Elyan
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So these people are deliberately bypassing the police?
Bypassing? No, of course they are not. If they were doing that, these perverts wouldn't be getting jailed.

Think of them as private detectives who serve the public for free, and help to expose the filth who want to sexually abuse our children.
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Old 10-12-2016, 18:52
Elyan
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What a pathetic comment.
Not at all.

Have a look at the Met's current recruitment policies. They more or less say straight white British men need not apply.
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Old 10-12-2016, 19:00
Deep Purple
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Have you seen some of these vigilante paedo hunters? Would you want them on the force? (In fact the criminal histories of many of them probably preclude them applying).
No I wouldn't, as I mentioned earlier.

My comment related to people who had a genuine interest in dealing with criminality.

I agree that the ones I've seen would not be allowed anywhere near the job.
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Old 10-12-2016, 19:01
Monkey_Moo
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Which is precisely what these people are doing.
No, in many cases they are posting their videos on Facebook and YouTube.
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Old 10-12-2016, 19:04
Deep Purple
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Bypassing? No, of course they are not. If they were doing that, these perverts wouldn't be getting jailed.

Think of them as private detectives who serve the public for free, and help to expose the filth who want to sexually abuse our children.
If we accept the activities of these people, we may as well say it is okay for anyone to investigate any crime, without the limitations imposed on the police, and other investigatory bodies.

Would you, or anyone else supporting these activities be happy with that? Of course not.
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Old 10-12-2016, 19:08
Monkey_Moo
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Because these members of the public are taking the initiative and doing all the leg work.
All the leg work?

Nope, not even close. If you had an idea of what a police investigation involves, and how the law and legal system works, you would realise that. The police will have to re-do most of the investigation, plus a lot more before it gets anywhere near a court. The vigilante might find and identify a suspect, but the bulk of the leg work is then done by the police/CPS.
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Old 10-12-2016, 19:16
blueblade
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Very recent example of someone caught in another amateur sting operation. The two individuals behind the sting look a bit rough and ready, but their methods were clearly effective enough to secure Porter's subsequent conviction - link
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Old 10-12-2016, 19:44
BanglaRoad
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Not at all.

Have a look at the Met's current recruitment policies. They more or less say straight white British men need not apply.
Stop trying to claim that group is suffering discrimination.
Met still has a problem with racism amongst some officers.
Oh and BTW how do you know that these hunters are all straight guys?
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Old 10-12-2016, 20:13
Elyan
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Stop trying to claim that group is suffering discrimination.
Met still has a problem with racism amongst some officers.
Oh and BTW how do you know that these hunters are all straight guys?
The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

Oxford Dictionary

Pretty straightforward.
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Old 10-12-2016, 20:15
tghe-retford
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If we accept the activities of these people, we may as well say it is okay for anyone to investigate any crime, without the limitations imposed on the police, and other investigatory bodies.

Would you, or anyone else supporting these activities be happy with that? Of course not.
We go down the road of psuedo-police who are not accountable to anyone, the prospect of mob justice for someone's perceived wrongdoing, whether illegal or not and the potential of having people punished for pre-crime because they look dodgy, are eccentric or lead a non-standard lifestyle that someone deems to be hiding nefarious intentions.

You are already seeing this mindset in academia and recent cases of people being run-out of higher education establishments as a result of mob justice on the whim of a accusation, feeling or disagreement with someone else should serve as a warning to wider society.
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Old 10-12-2016, 20:16
anais32
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Not at all.

Have a look at the Met's current recruitment policies. They more or less say straight white British men need not apply.
What a pile of absolutely ****. Like most of what you've posted.

There is a huge difference between wanting your organisation to be more representative of the people you serve; and the kind of rubbish that you think it means.

As for the whining that these dysfunctional inadequates (for that is what they are) are doing what the police should be doing....

Police work is tough, busy, traumatic and involves everything from dealing with juvenile miscreants at bus stops to hardcore forensic digging through complex financial data to sensitively having to question victims of serious crimes.

So they don't have time to set up fake accounts online and entrap people into criminal behaviour. Well I for one am bloody grateful. It's NOT what I want a police force to do.
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:01
BanglaRoad
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The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

Oxford Dictionary

Pretty straightforward.
Fine.
How many white males are officers in the Met?
How many black officers?
How many Asian officers?
The current recruitment is to try and redress the balance.
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:06
Monkey_Moo
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Very recent example of someone caught in another amateur sting operation. The two individuals behind the sting look a bit rough and ready, but their methods were clearly effective enough to secure Porter's subsequent conviction - link
They said he tried to drive away but, with the help of others, they were able to detain him while the police were called.
Thankfully they were able to stop him leaving. Usually they get away, and destroy evidence of their offence and/or tip off their mates.
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:07
Maxatoria
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In the context of what this thread is about - grooming - no victim is required, just an intention to find one.

The conversation they have, and the fact that the turn up, can prove the intent.

If you think about it, that's actually pretty sensible. You should not have to wait for a victim before being able to act to stop someone.
I was having a bit of fun, when looking at those two statements it just screams for some sarcastic response
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:15
blueblade
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Thankfully they were able to stop him leaving. Usually they get away, and destroy evidence of their offence and/or tip off their mates.
Yes.

Thing is though, they continue doing it, and I haven't yet seen or heard of any paedophile hunter being prosecuted themselves, so what is the best approach to dealing with these "hunters", do you think?
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:23
anais32
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Yes.

Thing is though, they continue doing it, and I haven't yet seen or heard of any paedophile hunter being prosecuted themselves, so what is the best approach to dealing with these "hunters", do you think?
Maybe not for this but most of them have a string of convictions for wife-beating, football violence, drug dealing, benefit fraud; and are often members of far right neo-nazi organisations.

And er, if you haven't heard of any paedophile being prosecuted - perhaps you don't know of this case...

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/paedo...gers-murder-uk

I believe you are the poster who thinks another extreme right racist killer (Tony Martin) is some kind of hero aren't you? Doesn't surprise me you'd think these guys are. Do you attend EDL rallies as well?
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:39
blueblade
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Maybe not for this but most of them have a string of convictions for wife-beating, football violence, drug dealing, benefit fraud; and are often members of far right neo-nazi organisations.
Are they? You obviously have access to details of their personal lives which I don't.

I was simply asking a perfectly reasonable question of another poster who I know is in the police force.

And er, if you haven't heard of any paedophile being prosecuted - perhaps you don't know of this case...

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/paedo...gers-murder-uk
Oddly enough I wasn't including individuals who had stabbed somebody else to death, in my considerations.

I believe you are the poster who thinks another extreme right racist killer (Tony Martin) is some kind of hero aren't you? Doesn't surprise me you'd think these guys are. Do you attend EDL rallies as well?
1/ Tony Martin has zero to do with this thread.

2/ I did say in my OP that I have very, very mixed feelings about this issue, and was asking for the opinions of others.

3/ I do not attend EDL rallies, voted remain and voted Labour in 2015.
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:43
anais32
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Are they? You obviously have access to details of their personal lives which I don't.
Perhaps I do. The link between these paedo-hunting groups and extreme right organisations is one that is well established.
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:43
CravenHaven
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is there anybody that thought Paedo Hunters sounds like a very dodgy programme on Dave
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:46
blueblade
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is there anybody that thought Paedo Hunters sounds like a very dodgy programme on Dave
You forgot the funny little shape you do under most of your posts
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:47
blueblade
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Perhaps I do. The link between these paedo-hunting groups and extreme right organisations is one that is well established.
But with all that said, do you have any response to the actual question I posed?
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Old 10-12-2016, 21:48
anais32
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But with all that said, do you have any response to the actual question I posed?
Which is what? Should the police work with them? No.

Chris Witter is pretty much typical of this lot. Someone who is a glory seeking neo-nazi and a violent criminal. They are pathetic inadequates seeking some kind of purpose in life. (Also typical, many claim to have been victims of abuse - Wittwer's story is clearly a bucketful of lies)

Even the most 'famous' (Stinson Hunter) admits that most of his 'targets' aren't even paedophiles. They are sad, lonely men who have been given some attention from the 'hunter' and have responded to it.
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