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Ore's Argentine Tango


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Old 11-12-2016, 00:28
Monaogg
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I don't think she was capable of doing that. She mangled that AT by dancing it in the ballroom style with much snarling and murderous looks, did all her own adornos and ganchos without reference to Ore and danced it like a harpy with a migraine and a bad attitude. She doesn't get it. Tsk!

Ore acted like a lonely lamp post, led not one single move and was just a convenient leaning apparatus and lifting 'person' for Madame Snarlsville.

Neither one did a single tango walk (the basis of all tango0 and neither one used the floor properly. We do not stomp in tango, we glide seamlessly and everything is led by the man with additions from the follower when she feels like it.

It was hilarious and awful. Poor Ore
Reminded me of the rush Job AT Kristina had to do when partnered with Colin Salmon.
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:29
sofakat
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Oh dear, another Ore bashing thread, how predictable.
It was hardly his fault. He did not have a choice in the choreography. Why blame him?
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:30
sofakat
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Reminded me of the rush Job AT Kristina had to do when partnered with Colin Salmon.
Such a waste of Colin. Clueless Kristina. Not missed.
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:31
sofakat
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I love how people who plainly have no idea what they are talking about criticise the judges' marking!


Happens all the time!
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:32
sofakat
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I do think the judges were dazzled a bit by Jo who was stunning. Ore basically acted as a base for her to dance around. He could have done a lot more imo.
Blame whoever choreographed that shambles, not Ore!
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:33
An Thropologist
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Sorry Rhumba and Ann but, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
I had forgotten it and have just watched it again. I agree it wasn't half bad. But the issues are that he doesn't observe the brush point and his steps are too open.

They do a lovely series of sacadas, some with enganches, which looked good but he misses occupying the axis point she had just left. This made the hooks look a little awkward.

The thing is that enganches, quatros, ganchos etc are not supposed to be embellishments you just bolt on willy nily to give and Argentinesque look to a tango. They are a consequence of what happens when two bodies are occupying the exact same spot of floor space momentarily. As you can't have two people stand in the same place at the same time one leg has to move out of the way quickly to let the partners incoming leg occupy the spot. One decorative way of doing that is to lift it and bend it out of the incoming legs path,.
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:33
Monaogg
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Happens all the time!
Yet you do post some fabulous links to what Argentine Tangos should look like. So at least we know there is the Strictly Show-dance AT and a proper Argentine Tango.
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:36
sofakat
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Thanks I knew there was a word. I'd have thought the hard part was the timing between each others legs...it felt like cheating to do them solo but I expected there'd be some good ones before the end. But there weren't!
They are not done solo but actually led. The lead will indicate and I will follow.

You never just 'do' them randomly. Not ever. Apart from the fact on a crowded 'ronda' you could do some serious damage to someone else.

We all dread being kicked with a pointed tango heel. It bloody hurts and it bleeds! The speed of the movement gives it a lot of clout!
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:37
sofakat
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Yet you do post some fabulous links to what Argentine Tangos should look like. So at least we know there is the Strictly Show-dance AT and a proper Argentine Tango.
I try!
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:46
Nina_Blake
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I prefered either of those or Aliona and the boy band guy. But in my opinion, really there is only one SCD AT worthy of its name and that was Vincent and Rachel.
I thought Dani & Vincent's was well received? It seemed so in the AT thread

ETA - I totally understand why Rachel's is the one that immediately springs to mind, though. I thought it was mesmerising.
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:46
mintchocchip
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Unfortunately I didn't think it deserved it's marks, with respect to Ore who acted it well, I found the dance quite awkward.

On previous AT''s I have a soft spot for Caroline and Pasha''s.

Thanks posters for reminding me of so many previous Strictly AT''s I've been youtubing them.
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:52
mintchocchip
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Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I mainly lurk these days but I often click on the links you post and I always want to read your thoughts on the AT''s (or non-ATs ) on the show.
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:52
*Laura*
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I had forgotten it and have just watched it again. I agree it wasn't half bad. But the issues are that he doesn't observe the brush point and his steps are too open.

They do a lovely series of sacadas, some with enganches, which looked good but he misses occupying the axis point she had just left. This made the hooks look a little awkward.

The thing is that enganches, quatros, ganchos etc are not supposed to be embellishments you just bolt on willy nily to give and Argentinesque look to a tango. They are a consequence of what happens when two bodies are occupying the exact same spot of floor space momentarily. As you can't have two people stand in the same place at the same time one eg has to move out of the wayqucikly to let the partners incoming leg occupy the spot. One decorative way of doing that is to lift it and bend it out of the incoming legs path,.
Thank you for that wonderful analysis. I'm obviously not as well trained as you are in the dance but, what I can remember is how I felt when I watched them perform their routine. I really wasn't expecting Natalie and Ricky to be that good. I did expect Rachel's to be great because she was a lovely dancer and well she was dancing AT with Vincent, but, Ricky and Natalie just took my breath away because all I was expecting the usual "tango with a few flicks". So to see that routine executed so well by two non-AT dancers had me leaping off my sofa, then to see Natalie's face when she realised the audience was giving them a SO was just delightful. I'm sure both R&N felt they were leaving that night, so they just went out left everything on the dance floor and those are my reasons why it has the edge on Rachel and Vincent. Ok my reasons are not as technical as yours but, for me it was everything around the dance as well as the routine itself which makes it my favourite AT.
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Old 11-12-2016, 00:54
David Wright
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I prefered either of those or Aliona and the boy band guy. But in my opinion, really there is only one SCD AT worthy of its name and that was Vincent and Rachel.
Yep, very good AT by Vincent and Rachel;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVx1CskHlcc

Notice minimal lifts then (2008)
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:03
An Thropologist
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Thank you for that wonderful analysis. I'm obviously not as well trained as you are in the dance but, what I can remember is how I felt when I watched them perform their routine. I really wasn't expecting Natalie and Ricky to be that good. I did expect Rachel's to be great because she was a lovely dancer and well she was dancing AT with Vincent, but, Ricky and Natalie just took my breath away because all I was expecting the usual "tango with a few flicks". So to see that routine executed so well by two non-AT dancers had me leaping off my sofa, then to see Natalie's face when she realised the audience was giving them a SO was just delightful. I'm sure both R&N felt they were leaving that night, so they just went out left everything on the dance floor and those are my reasons why it has the edge on Rachel and Vincent. Ok my reasons are not as technical as yours but, for me it was everything around the dance as well as the routine itself which makes it my favourite AT.
And to be fair for a performance dance that is what really matters. If the audience are moved, they did their job. And I enjoyed the Nat and Ricky routine and indeed the whole partnership. The AT that moved me most was Mark and Karen's. But that wasn't because of the dancing alone. If I sit and pick it apart I can find loads of faults and still think Vincent and Rachel's was better, but it didn't have the effect on me of Mark and Karen's. So the reasons for your favourite are rather similar to the reasons for mine.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:08
Rhumbatugger
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I had forgotten it and have just watched it again. I agree it wasn't half bad. But the issues are that he doesn't observe the brush point and his steps are too open.

They do a lovely series of sacadas, some with enganches, which looked good but he misses occupying the axis point she had just left. This made the hooks look a little awkward.

The thing is that enganches, quatros, ganchos etc are not supposed to be embellishments you just bolt on willy nily to give and Argentinesque look to a tango. They are a consequence of what happens when two bodies are occupying the exact same spot of floor space momentarily. As you can't have two people stand in the same place at the same time one leg has to move out of the way quickly to let the partners incoming leg occupy the spot. One decorative way of doing that is to lift it and bend it out of the incoming legs path,.
Still, he taught that to her in a WEEK, which I think is a bit amazing.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:09
Rhumbatugger
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And to be fair for a performance dance that is what really matters. If the audience are moved, they did their job. And I enjoyed the Nat and Ricky routine and indeed the whole partnership. The AT that moved me most was Mark and Karen's. But that wasn't because of the dancing alone. If I sit and pick it apart I can find loads of faults and still think Vincent and Rachel's was better, but it didn't have the effect on me of Mark and Karen's. So the reasons for your favourite are rather similar to the reasons for mine.
For me it was because I was invested in Ramps and it was the FIRST celeb AT I'd ever seen.

But my heart was in my throat watching Rachel with Vincent. Wonderful
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:11
sofakat
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Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I mainly lurk these days but I often click on the links you post and I always want to read your thoughts on the AT''s (or non-ATs ) on the show.
Thank you! That's really kind of you

I do love dancing it and it is one of the great passions in my life x
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:13
*Laura*
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And to be fair for a performance dance that is what really matters. If the audience are moved, they did their job. And I enjoyed the Nat and Ricky routine and indeed the whole partnership. The AT that moved me most was Mark and Karen's. But that wasn't because of the dancing alone. If I sit and pick it apart I can find loads of faults and still think Vincent and Rachel's was better, but it didn't have the effect on me of Mark and Karen's. So the reasons for your favourite are rather similar to the reasons for mine.
Agreed. The storytelling in M&K's routine was fantastic and quite rightly has a special place in the SCD all-time greats list.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:16
madetomeasure
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Just watching the twice world champs of AT, makes me miss them from the show. Does anybody know if Vincent and Flavia still tour ?
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:18
An Thropologist
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Sofa if you are still about have a look at the VT of tonight would you please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=239Q-jV9Yn8

It's the bit at 1.30 that interests me. I thought in the live show that they aborted a volcada that wasn't going to work. So I have been looking at in slow motion and can't make up my mind. Do you think they changed plans mid move so to speak.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:21
An Thropologist
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For me it was because I was invested in Ramps and it was the FIRST celeb AT I'd ever seen.

But my heart was in my throat watching Rachel with Vincent. Wonderful
Yes me too. He was and still is my all time favourite contestant.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:22
Rhumbatugger
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Sofa if you are still about have a look at the VT of tonight would you please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=239Q-jV9Yn8

It's the bit at 1.30 that interests me. I thought in the live show that they aborted a volcada that wasn't going to work. So I have been looking at in slow motion and can't make up my mind. Do you think they changed plans mid move so to speak.
Just watched it again and whatever it is I flamin' LOVE it. Wonderful.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:25
curvybabes
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Jo was great Ore barely danced I gave it a 7 judge's score's were ridiculous.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:26
Rhumbatugger
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Jo was great Ore barely danced I gave it a 7 judge's score's were ridiculous.
Have another look, just do. He really does dance and it's very good.
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