These silly sods trying to delay/block Brexit normally cite Britians future as their reasons, but don't they see that doing things like this is actually doing more harm to the countries future and strengthening the EU's hand in negotiations?
Brexit To Be Stuck In Legal Battles For Year? Never Get Off Ground?
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Originally Posted by Andy2:
“I think those claims from these people that they 'respect the will of the people' and that they have 'no intention of de-railing the process' can now be discounted. Their sole reason for these challenges is to do just that, and by any means possible. Mrs May, you are the PM - use your power to stop this nonsense. Stand up for the majority and take us out of the EU, Single Market and all.”
“I think those claims from these people that they 'respect the will of the people' and that they have 'no intention of de-railing the process' can now be discounted. Their sole reason for these challenges is to do just that, and by any means possible. Mrs May, you are the PM - use your power to stop this nonsense. Stand up for the majority and take us out of the EU, Single Market and all.”
The job of the PM in our representative democracy is to govern in the interests of the entire country not just the side you support.
What May should be doing (as she outlined six months ago) is carrying out a consultation with all interests groups within the UK to come up with a proposal which will please the vast majority. She said she would talk to Leavers, Remainers, Left, Right, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, London, Business and The Unions. Can Mrs May let us know when this consultation begins because all I see from her is a discussion between herself and Brexit Hardliners.
Originally Posted by ShaunIOW:
“These silly sods trying to delay/block Brexit normally cite Britians future as their reasons, but don't they see that doing things like this is actually doing more harm to the countries future and strengthening the EU's hand in negotiations?”
“These silly sods trying to delay/block Brexit normally cite Britians future as their reasons, but don't they see that doing things like this is actually doing more harm to the countries future and strengthening the EU's hand in negotiations?”
Agree with you. It's more damaging to our country if we are heading for "Soft Brexit".
Like IDS I'd rather have no Brexit if that's the case.
Originally Posted by Andy2:
“Mrs May, you are the PM - use your power to stop this nonsense.”
“Mrs May, you are the PM - use your power to stop this nonsense.”
A Brexshitter not knowing how their own government works? That is not surprising.
May, although she refuses to acknowledge it, is not a supreme dictator that can decide what the country is doing. Most of what she is able to do requires parliamentary approval. That is the reason for the Supreme Court challenge.
I guess you're right in that she does have the power to do the right thing - to bring her plans to Parliament and to give them final approval.
Originally Posted by Andy2:
“Stand up for the majority and take us out of the EU, Single Market and all.”
“Stand up for the majority and take us out of the EU, Single Market and all.”
On what basis? When did we have a *binding* referendum on anything, let alone leaving the single market? I don't remember being asked for my opinion on this. It wasn't in the 2015 Conservative manifesto. So where's the mandate to do that?
All she has is a very very flimsy result to the question of "should we leave the EU". That is all she has any sort of "democratic" mandate to do. But everything else, including our post-Brexit future, has not been decided upon and it is not hers to decide unilaterally.
Originally Posted by moox:
“A Brexshitter not knowing how their own government works? That is not surprising.
May, although she refuses to acknowledge it, is not a supreme dictator that can decide what the country is doing. Most of what she is able to do requires parliamentary approval. That is the reason for the Supreme Court challenge.
I guess you're right in that she does have the power to do the right thing - to bring her plans to Parliament and to give them final approval.
On what basis? When did we have a *binding* referendum on anything, let alone leaving the single market? I don't remember being asked for my opinion on this. It wasn't in the 2015 Conservative manifesto. So where's the mandate to do that?
All she has is a very very flimsy result to the question of "should we leave the EU". That is all she has any sort of "democratic" mandate to do. But everything else, including our post-Brexit future, has not been decided upon and it is not hers to decide unilaterally.”
“A Brexshitter not knowing how their own government works? That is not surprising.
May, although she refuses to acknowledge it, is not a supreme dictator that can decide what the country is doing. Most of what she is able to do requires parliamentary approval. That is the reason for the Supreme Court challenge.
I guess you're right in that she does have the power to do the right thing - to bring her plans to Parliament and to give them final approval.
On what basis? When did we have a *binding* referendum on anything, let alone leaving the single market? I don't remember being asked for my opinion on this. It wasn't in the 2015 Conservative manifesto. So where's the mandate to do that?
All she has is a very very flimsy result to the question of "should we leave the EU". That is all she has any sort of "democratic" mandate to do. But everything else, including our post-Brexit future, has not been decided upon and it is not hers to decide unilaterally.”
She could get that right now if she could guarantee the Tory MP europhiles voted the way they did a few days ago. Alternatively she could take the risk of a general election, win an enormous majority with a reduced number of europhiles and push through what she likes. That could well happen.
Originally Posted by FusionFury:
“I don't think she's strong enough to deliver Brexit. Or Brexit the majority voted for.
Dare I say it, Trump would tell these Legal challenge obstacles to do one by now. He's not a perfect president but he is strong on his beliefs and views.. let's see if he's a success at implementing change. Obama was a good talker and diplomatic "people pleaser" like May, but didn't do much.
If we got "our Trump" in 2020 because people are so angry and want change, who knows if it make it more successful as we have a leader who is strong and believes in change? time will tell, I guess.”
“I don't think she's strong enough to deliver Brexit. Or Brexit the majority voted for.
Dare I say it, Trump would tell these Legal challenge obstacles to do one by now. He's not a perfect president but he is strong on his beliefs and views.. let's see if he's a success at implementing change. Obama was a good talker and diplomatic "people pleaser" like May, but didn't do much.
If we got "our Trump" in 2020 because people are so angry and want change, who knows if it make it more successful as we have a leader who is strong and believes in change? time will tell, I guess.”
Who do you think could be our very own Trump?
Originally Posted by psionic:
“Who do you think could be our very own Trump?”
“Who do you think could be our very own Trump?”
Since mainly Remnants on here think Trump is useless, who better than our own Mr. Corbyn.
Originally Posted by moox:
“A Brexshitter not knowing how their own government works? That is not surprising.
.”
“A Brexshitter not knowing how their own government works? That is not surprising.
.”
Lost the argument on the second word. Grow up.
Originally Posted by Andy2:
“Lost the argument on the second word. Grow up.”
“Lost the argument on the second word. Grow up.”
I'll take this well written reply as a suggestion that you don't want to face reality or want to understand the purpose of Parliament. Denial is after all the hallmark of Brexit.
I'll also note your reply for when someone uses "Remnant" or "Bremoaner". Those are grown up words, right?
Originally Posted by FusionFury:
“https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/237444...single-market/
ANOTHER legal challenge to Brexit
FFS, will Brexit ever get off the ground? it will be stuck in legal battles for years.. seems the high court ruling has made any tom, dick and harry with a few bob to fancy their chances thinking they can thwart Brexit everytime it looks like it will get off ground..
I'm not sure if Brexit will ever happen now.. losing hope rapidly. And if we do get Brexit like Mr. Farage says I suspect a Soft Brexit.. waiting for 2020 really is probably Brexiteers best bet for change...
”
“https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/237444...single-market/
ANOTHER legal challenge to Brexit
FFS, will Brexit ever get off the ground? it will be stuck in legal battles for years.. seems the high court ruling has made any tom, dick and harry with a few bob to fancy their chances thinking they can thwart Brexit everytime it looks like it will get off ground..
I'm not sure if Brexit will ever happen now.. losing hope rapidly. And if we do get Brexit like Mr. Farage says I suspect a Soft Brexit.. waiting for 2020 really is probably Brexiteers best bet for change...
”
It's happening, I'm heartily sick of this nonsense now, it's a case of I did not get what I wanted from the vote so I'm going to challenge it, they are sad pathetic selfish morons.
Time we all stopped pandering and giving these idiots the time of day, the excuse that it was not on the ballot paper or in the Conservative party manifesto is an utter bullshit excuse for trying to challenge the government over Brexit.
No party manifesto in history has ever been fully implemented, it's simply the act of a loon who believes that everything should be mentioned policy wise in a manifesto that will cover the entire term of administration. If this stupid mindset is allowed to prevail then we are going to have court action over general election results, by election results in fact court action over every act of government and policy meaning nothing will be achieved by any party in office because it will be challenged in court.
Labour has as much to fear if Brexit does not happen, a Scottish style wipeout is on the cards not only in Northern England but Wales as well, they have a hell of a lot of disfranchised voters who want Brexit, as for the Lib Dems they are still a fag in the gutter party so unlikely to capitalise on a labour collapse.
I voted to remain but I'm so utterly pissed off with some sad losers with me me me syndrome I would now back Brexit in a referendum re run.
Originally Posted by james_lndsay:
“It's happening, I'm heartily sick of this nonsense now, it's a case of I did not get what I wanted from the vote so I'm going to challenge it, they are sad pathetic selfish morons.
Time we all stopped pandering and giving these idiots the time of day, the excuse that it was not on the ballot paper or in the Conservative party manifesto is an utter bullshit excuse for trying to challenge the government over Brexit.
No party manifesto in history has ever been fully implemented, it's simply the act of a loon who believes that everything should be mentioned policy wise in a manifesto that will cover the entire term of administration. If this stupid mindset is allowed to prevail then we are going to have court action over general election results, by election results in fact court action over every act of government and policy meaning nothing will be achieved by any party in office because it will be challenged in court.
Labour has as much to fear if Brexit does not happen, a Scottish style wipeout is on the cards not only in Northern England but Wales as well, they have a hell of a lot of disfranchised voters who want Brexit, as for the Lib Dems they are still a fag in the gutter party so unlikely to capitalise on a labour collapse.
I voted to remain but I'm so utterly pissed off with some sad losers with me me me syndrome I would now back Brexit in a referendum re run.”
“It's happening, I'm heartily sick of this nonsense now, it's a case of I did not get what I wanted from the vote so I'm going to challenge it, they are sad pathetic selfish morons.
Time we all stopped pandering and giving these idiots the time of day, the excuse that it was not on the ballot paper or in the Conservative party manifesto is an utter bullshit excuse for trying to challenge the government over Brexit.
No party manifesto in history has ever been fully implemented, it's simply the act of a loon who believes that everything should be mentioned policy wise in a manifesto that will cover the entire term of administration. If this stupid mindset is allowed to prevail then we are going to have court action over general election results, by election results in fact court action over every act of government and policy meaning nothing will be achieved by any party in office because it will be challenged in court.
Labour has as much to fear if Brexit does not happen, a Scottish style wipeout is on the cards not only in Northern England but Wales as well, they have a hell of a lot of disfranchised voters who want Brexit, as for the Lib Dems they are still a fag in the gutter party so unlikely to capitalise on a labour collapse.
I voted to remain but I'm so utterly pissed off with some sad losers with me me me syndrome I would now back Brexit in a referendum re run.”
The best thing that could happen is the Supreme Court Ruling Brexit Stands and throwing out the likes of Gina Miller's challenge. It sets a dangerous precedent like you said.. and I'm actually sick of it now.. is this Remain voters/campaigners trick to tire Leave and Brexit voters out so much they become immune/indifferent to it all?
Originally Posted by FusionFury:
“The best thing that could happen is the Supreme Court Ruling Brexit Stands and throwing out the likes of Gina Miller's challenge. It sets a dangerous precedent like you said.. and I'm actually sick of it now.. is this Remain voters/campaigners trick to tire Leave and Brexit voters out so much they become immune/indifferent to it all?”
“The best thing that could happen is the Supreme Court Ruling Brexit Stands and throwing out the likes of Gina Miller's challenge. It sets a dangerous precedent like you said.. and I'm actually sick of it now.. is this Remain voters/campaigners trick to tire Leave and Brexit voters out so much they become immune/indifferent to it all?
”
The "dangerous precedent" of "parliament gets to approve or reject what the government does".
Yes. How frightful.
Originally Posted by FusionFury:
“The best thing that could happen is the Supreme Court Ruling Brexit Stands and throwing out the likes of Gina Miller's challenge. It sets a dangerous precedent like you said.. and I'm actually sick of it now.. is this Remain voters/campaigners trick to tire Leave and Brexit voters out so much they become immune/indifferent to it all?”
“The best thing that could happen is the Supreme Court Ruling Brexit Stands and throwing out the likes of Gina Miller's challenge. It sets a dangerous precedent like you said.. and I'm actually sick of it now.. is this Remain voters/campaigners trick to tire Leave and Brexit voters out so much they become immune/indifferent to it all?
”
I'm so tempted now to crowdfund a legal action against Millionaire Miller and her cohorts for trying to deny my rights in a parliamentary democracy by imposing her opinion on us all as it suits her agenda and personal wealth at the expense of us all.
Originally Posted by FusionFury:
“The best thing that could happen is the Supreme Court Ruling Brexit Stands and throwing out the likes of Gina Miller's challenge. It sets a dangerous precedent like you said.. and I'm actually sick of it now.. is this Remain voters/campaigners trick to tire Leave and Brexit voters out so much they become immune/indifferent to it all?”
“The best thing that could happen is the Supreme Court Ruling Brexit Stands and throwing out the likes of Gina Miller's challenge. It sets a dangerous precedent like you said.. and I'm actually sick of it now.. is this Remain voters/campaigners trick to tire Leave and Brexit voters out so much they become immune/indifferent to it all?
”
The Supreme Court are not ruling on Brexit, they are ruling on whether May has the authority to bypass parliament. That's all.
Originally Posted by james_lndsay:
“I'm so tempted now to crowdfund a legal action against Millionaire Miller and her cohorts for trying to deny my rights in a parliamentary democracy by imposing her opinion on us all as it suits her agenda and personal wealth at the expense of us all.”
“I'm so tempted now to crowdfund a legal action against Millionaire Miller and her cohorts for trying to deny my rights in a parliamentary democracy by imposing her opinion on us all as it suits her agenda and personal wealth at the expense of us all.”
You would be wasting your time as the government admitted in the Supreme Court this week that the referendum was advisory. So Miller is not denying your rights.
Governments regularly do things that weren't in a manifesto and there is nothing in law that says they can't. The result of the referendum was to leave the EU and the main reasons for that were ending FoM, ending the supremacy of EU law over UK law and ending paying billions to the EU to be a member. Staying in the single market leaves those things in place so it is difficult to see how that isn't a mandate to leave it but in any case parliament will get a vote on the exit agreement.
Originally Posted by jmclaugh:
“Governments regularly do things that weren't in a manifesto and there is nothing in law that says they can't. The result of the referendum was to leave the EU and the main reasons for that were ending FoM, ending the supremacy of EU law over UK law and ending paying billions to the EU to be a member. Staying in the single market leaves those things in place so it is difficult to see how that isn't a mandate to leave it but in any case parliament will get a vote on the exit agreement.”
“Governments regularly do things that weren't in a manifesto and there is nothing in law that says they can't. The result of the referendum was to leave the EU and the main reasons for that were ending FoM, ending the supremacy of EU law over UK law and ending paying billions to the EU to be a member. Staying in the single market leaves those things in place so it is difficult to see how that isn't a mandate to leave it but in any case parliament will get a vote on the exit agreement.”
Baffling really when you think about it.
Why would people vote to Leave if not to end FOM and get to write our own laws?
Originally Posted by Andy2:
“I think those claims from these people that they 'respect the will of the people' and that they have 'no intention of de-railing the process' can now be discounted. Their sole reason for these challenges is to do just that, and by any means possible. Mrs May, you are the PM - use your power to stop this nonsense. Stand up for the majority and take us out of the EU, Single Market and all.”
“I think those claims from these people that they 'respect the will of the people' and that they have 'no intention of de-railing the process' can now be discounted. Their sole reason for these challenges is to do just that, and by any means possible. Mrs May, you are the PM - use your power to stop this nonsense. Stand up for the majority and take us out of the EU, Single Market and all.”
Gad you've followed the Supreme Court case so closely and have come to understand the concepts of a parliamentary democracy, given we live in one...
Blah blah blah...BREXIT!!!
Blah blah blah...WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!!
Blah blah blah...GAY FENCERS!!!
Unbelievable.
Wake up.
Originally Posted by james_lndsay:
“I'm so tempted now to crowdfund a legal action against Millionaire Miller and her cohorts for trying to deny my rights in a parliamentary democracy by imposing her opinion on us all as it suits her agenda and personal wealth at the expense of us all.”
“I'm so tempted now to crowdfund a legal action against Millionaire Miller and her cohorts for trying to deny my rights in a parliamentary democracy by imposing her opinion on us all as it suits her agenda and personal wealth at the expense of us all.”
She's actually trying to make parliamentary democracy mean something.
Parliament is sovereign. They should be the final say on what goes ahead. Miller is asking for just that, whereas you appear to think that they shouldn't get a say at all. How is that parliamentary democracy?
Some of the people involved in the case aren't millionaires. Isn't one them a hairdresser?
Originally Posted by FusionFury:
“Baffling really when you think about it.
Why would people vote to Leave if not to end FOM and get to write our own laws?”
“Baffling really when you think about it.
Why would people vote to Leave if not to end FOM and get to write our own laws?”
Exactly. Take back control is what the slogan was.
Not have no control and still pay in yet have no vote in how the EU is run or any MEPs to vote on issues. Cos soft Brexit is no Brexit at all - it's the EU in all but name but having no voting power.
Why would anyone think that is a good idea is beyond me.
Originally Posted by james_lndsay:
“I'm so tempted now to crowdfund a legal action against Millionaire Miller and her cohorts for trying to deny my rights in a parliamentary democracy by imposing her opinion on us all as it suits her agenda and personal wealth at the expense of us all.”
“I'm so tempted now to crowdfund a legal action against Millionaire Miller and her cohorts for trying to deny my rights in a parliamentary democracy by imposing her opinion on us all as it suits her agenda and personal wealth at the expense of us all.”
Nobody is doubting that there are a group of Leavers who will stick to a principled position that Leave means Leave even if there are Economic consequences. These are people who have a healthy interest in Politics most of the time.....not just during these unusual times. These are people who might post on a Politics Forum, most days.
But.......the majority of Leavers are just members of the public who would be, and will be, heavily influenced by the prospect of an Economic hit.
Surely that was obvious even before the new yougov poll?
Remain cannot stop a hard Brexit. They don't have the numbers. Only Leavers can stop a hard Brexit.
If we see a deal to leave the Eu which looks a lot like Remain, the childish fighting will surely be between Hard Leavers and Reconsidering Leavers. (Reconceivers?).
Originally Posted by Beanybun:
“Gad you've followed the Supreme Court case so closely and have come to understand the concepts of a parliamentary democracy, given we live in one...
Blah blah blah...BREXIT!!!
Blah blah blah...WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!!
Blah blah blah...GAY FENCERS!!!
Unbelievable.
Wake up.”
“Gad you've followed the Supreme Court case so closely and have come to understand the concepts of a parliamentary democracy, given we live in one...
Blah blah blah...BREXIT!!!
Blah blah blah...WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!!
Blah blah blah...GAY FENCERS!!!
Unbelievable.
Wake up.”
Parliament approved the EU referendum act which is why we had a vote on 23 June. They delegated their decision to the voters and now they have a decision from the voters that is what should be implemented.
Because parliament derives its powers and sovereignty from the people. And they voted.
Given the government got a 327 majority on the article 50 timetable this week it is clear the vast majority of MPs are intending to respect the decision they delegated on.
PS sometimes thoughtful posts without references to 'gay fencers'
might stimulate a more adult debate.
Originally Posted by The Exiled Dub:
“The Supreme Court are not ruling on Brexit, they are ruling on whether May has the authority to bypass parliament. That's all.”
“The Supreme Court are not ruling on Brexit, they are ruling on whether May has the authority to bypass parliament. That's all.”
She's not bypassing it, she's using a Parliamentary approved instrument to make a decision.
The High Court should not be allowed to override or delay the wishes of the voting majority.
The people as a majority outranks the High Court or so it should be a common sense society.
The people as a majority outranks the High Court or so it should be a common sense society.
Originally Posted by Pencil:
“The High Court should not be allowed to override or delay the wishes of the voting majority.
The people as a majority outranks the High Court or so it should be a common sense society.”
“The High Court should not be allowed to override or delay the wishes of the voting majority.
The people as a majority outranks the High Court or so it should be a common sense society.”
Has DS turned into the Daily Mail comments section?
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