I'm glad you said 'certain types' of Christians as BBC screened a documentary called "Americas Hate Preachers" a few weeks ago which made the Westboro weirdos seem almost angelic by comaprison! It's here on iplayer but it makes very disturbing viewing and the so called "Pastor" is utterly evil (banned from UK and South Africa deported him). It's not what i see as reflecting true Christianity at all. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...hate-preachers

I found the Muslim documentary very interesting and i'm looking forward to the second part. Haqq the boxer chap got off to a bad start immediately with the frosty reception he gave Mehreen. But Saba, the elderly lady really tore into him big time and left him in no doubt at all what she thinks of his extreme views.

Saba and Mehreen are complete opposites in the dress sense with Saba being more traditional and Mehreen very western, so Saba's early outburst against Haqq took me by surprise! But it's apparent none agree with his extreme views.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/1...es-everywhere/

"I won't shake hands. It's nothing personal, purely sexist."

Might be easier if everyone stuck to using the part 2 thread

Making three consecutive postings in the other thread to bump it up on top of the board, then suggesting "everyone stuck to using the part 2 thread", is not very clever.

This thread was started three days before.

Excuse me? I saw the thread for the first time today, it said part 2 and people were active and using it so I assumed it is because that tonight is part two! Get a brain!

Two women (Shia and slightly older Asian) the Syrian, the gay one and the fat man are reasonable.

The others are absolute arses.

Especially the unfunny comedian.

The experiment isn't working so well tonight! It's becoming sadly more shocking which is a shame for the good people in there

Good old religion.

wow that abdul guy is too much hes avoiding the question but he obviously doesnt see her as a ''real'' muslim.

I agree. Much more anger tonight which is disappointing.

The man who considers the morality of massacring unbelievers a moot point takes exception to making criminals wear tags? Is he pals with Anjem Choudary, by any chance?

I don't know how to feel with this, if a person of Muslim faith is born and bred in Britain, how do you not feel a bit British and appreciate British landmarks? I'm from Hull but it doesn't mean I don't love the architecture in Edinburgh etc and feel it's part of my heritage! I have Irish and Portuguese heritage from some Great Grandparents - I embrace it all!

How bloody hypocritical is Abdul Huq and his crazy statements about Britain being draconian!

Well I enjoyed that even though parts of it pissed me off, I really hope that Abdul has changed his mind somewhat.

Why are you surprised, being traditional is not the same as being extremist.

He was a member of Choudary's group and is under surveillance apparently. The Shia girl got it right in saying that he's bat shit crazy and she wanted to call the anti-terror police.

Interesting documentary. As a Muslim myself, I'm worried that some non-Muslims watching may not be able to differentiate between conservative and extremist views. I hold conservative views. I do not condone violence.

For instance, not shaking the hands of women to whom I'm not related is not "extreme", it's just basic Islam. The reason why some within the group felt it was extreme was because to them, Islam is just a cultural thing. They don't like the idea of being restricted by rules, so they just ignore them. Whether they like it or not, those boundaries do exist within Islam. it's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact.

The more liberal ones in the group wanted to redefine Islam according to what made them feel comfortable. If you believe in Islam, you believe the Quran and Sunnah define what it is. Not people's desires.

Which would be considered extremely bad manners by most people in this country.

Out of interest, why are you a Muslim?

There were many interesting things in this, and I'm not sure two episodes was enough. It was a bit Big Brother, with the focus on the clashes and who is dominating the conversation and whose shopping it was etc. I felt that if there was an extra episode, there would be more space for the more day to day, less sensational conversations.

In some ways, having someone with very extreme views in the mix skewed the conversation, and it risked being all about him. On the other hand, I think his confidence at airing his extreme views probably gave some of the others confidence to be honest with their own.

I thought it was great that the Syrian student was keen to talk to the EDL bloke, and ask him to ask questions. Asking for the hug was probably a bit much! I was shocked that the stand-up bloke was so disgusted by it. I get that he thinks EDL are awful, and understand why he's so frightened of them, but I thought he'd at least appreciate the value of talking to a member, and hopefully persuading him to open his mind.

The idea that many Asian Muslims look down on African ones didn't get much attention. It seemed to be accepted as fact, although I think on the whole, Brits are less racist towards black people than Asians, but for some reason, adding Muslim to black seems to be more scary than Asian Muslim. I suppose it's fear of the unknown.

The Shia/Sunni thing is fascinating. I suppose it's a bit like the difference between Catholics and Protestants - some followers are fixated on their differences, not what they have in common. Even these days, somewhere like Glasgow still has problems with sectarianism.

In my personal experience, I've never had any negative interactions with real life Muslims. I did have a meeting with one who didn't want to shake my hand, but that was right at the very end of the meeting, and he was very polite. He had no issue with having the meeting, or talking to me alone in a room (with a glass window into the main office). He listened to everything I said, and I got no sense that he disrespected me because I'm a woman, so the lack of hand-shake didn't bother me.

Yes, and not only is it ill-mannered, it's really quite insulting to men.

Clearly many Muslims hold men in such low regard that they think if men even so much as touch a woman's hand or see a strand of female hair they'll not be able to help themselves and won't be responsible for their actions around said woman.

All men are supposedly no better than dogs on heat. Most people around the world know this is nonsense. There's plenty of men who get regularly exposed to scantily clad women on a frequent basis and are perfectly capable of being restrained and respectful to these women. Only a tiny minority are lecherous scumbags.

Because I believe in Islam.

As for not shaking hands being considered bad manners, wouldn't that be based on an assumption of the intent behind it? The assumption being the misnomer that Islam degrades women or some-such nonsense.

The actual reason we don't do it is because it is a physical act that can, in principal, convey sexual desire between men and women. Islam is based on general principles.

But surely that implies all men are like dogs on heat and want to sleep with any non-related female that comes their way? Men regularly mix with women they have no desire to sleep with. How is shaking hands in any way sexual?

No i know that and i'm not sure where you've drawn that conclusion from as i never implied that at all. I was just surprised it was Saba who tore into Haqq, thats all. I didn't expect her to be quite so vocal. I expected it more from Mehreen, especially as she'd been the first on the receiving end of Haqq's views.

Hhmm yes, good question!

Shaking hands per se is not sexual, but if it is done softly or tenderly it can indicate amorous desire.

There are poems and song lyrics that express this notion. Words to the effect of "I knew I loved you from the moment I touched your hand" and other sentiments.

Jeez.