You said that most people on this thread like the Cliftons and I was making the point that a thread on Digital Spy doesn't represent the real world, the 10 million people who watch. Everyone I know if the real world who watches the show, can't stand them.

To be perfectly honest, isn't there something about each and everyone in the world which has the potential to irritate?

Why single out "the Cliftons" as if they're each somehow unique in that?

If people choose to judge Joanne, based on their perceptions of Kevin and Karen then I respectfully suggest that some sense of objectivity is required.

They are not one homogenous mass - they are three distinct and separate individuals.

Danny will win and rightly so if all goes well but if Kevin gets through to the final for a fourth time it's pretty fantastic and not a bad thing at all. Doubt he will be crying.

I think people who post on here generally have a level of interest in Strictly beyond most others... But I like to think I live in the real world? Equally, I can't really think of many people I know who would want to have an in depth discussion about strictly pros, hence why I post on here. The majority of people are more indifferent to everything about strictly than anyone who posts on here is; that doesn't mean that an opinion on the Internet is less valid, if anything it comes from someone who loves and watches the show constantly so has more thought put into it.

Twitter comments were interesting last night. You might be right.

I don't judge Joanne on being a Clifton. I judge it because in my opinion she isn't particularly likeable and is the weakest professional dancer (bar Anton).

Natalie, for example, comes across really well in my opinion.

The fact that her, Kevin and Karen are all Cliftons just make it a coincidence.

No she did not. What she said was:

"And yet only one other agreeing with you in this thread thus far, the rest of us don't seem to loathe the Clifton's". Not "loathing" is not the same as "actively liking".

It is perfectly possible to have a balanced view on them. Please don't twist people's words.

I think it's just easier to accept opinions when people offer it simply as their own, rather than feeling that they speak for the entire world and making blanket assertions - as if that somehow carries some additional weight.

We single out the Cliftons now because we've had 4 years of seeing the bias. 4 years of Kevin getting a good dancer, 4 years of Kevin/Karen being the front and centre of most of the pro dances, then they added Joanne in to the mix and it definitely seems there's some sort of bias towards them. Considering there's rumours that their bloody dad is in line to replace Len, they must have some dirt on someone somewhere!

EXACTLY. Thank you!

I get that Karen wouldn't be popular with some, she is very OTT but I bloody love her! She makes me laugh, is lovely with duffers and I think she is a pretty good latin dancer. Didn't she win a World Mambo championship or something?

Anyway she's my favourite Clifton.

He's already on the judges panel. Kevin said so on Friday. 😀😉

Sorry OP, I just don't get the Clifton hate. They're all brilliant dancers, they're all great with their partners. They all seem like nice people. The only thing I will concede is it's time Kevin had a duffer next year.

No, you are the only person who doesn't like them. Hence why this is the only thread on digital spy asking if people also hate Karen, Kevin and Jo.

Sorry to disagree OP but, I have really liked Joanne this series. Her choreography has been great and I'm so glad she had a partner to showcase his strengths and her brilliance. Kevin has grown on me this series as Louise seems to have quietened him down a LOT.

Although I have always enjoyed most of his choreography I just couldn't take to him. I think it's partly because of all the "Kevin from Grimsby" nonsense when he first joined the show, and partly because he has previously come across as just so damn loud. Last year with Kellie I looked forward to watching all their routines but, didn't vote for them because once they got into the "Tesspit" they came across as a pair of overgrown toddlers who had maxed out on the blue smarties.

I was addressing the person who said "Joanne would be much more popular if she wasn't associated with them", which clearly demonstrates a bias against Joanne which has nothing whatsoever to do with her dancing and everything to do with an irrational dislike of them instead.

Furthermore - to address your own point - in terms of assessing her abilities as a dancer, I would place a great deal more credence on the opinions of the judges who awarded her and her former dance partner the numerous World Ballroom Danncing Titles that they hold, than a faceless individual with a loaded agenda, posting on an internet forum.

I guess i'm just a bit funny that way.

Which ones this series have they been front and centre of?

The Cliftons aren't popular (on this forum, in certain parts) because they're really badly overexposed (especially Kevin), perceived producer bias (especially Kevin), bit overbearing for some (especially Kevin), liable to drown routines in inappropriate props and theming (especially Kevin) and they've all had their fair share of Marmite, if not outright unpopular, partners (Susanna, Kellie, Scott, Ore, Nicky, Dave, Mark).

But you know that isn't going to happen, right?

Someone somewhere gave evidence that there was no favouritism in group dances this year, if you dislike smug, take a look at AJ, if you dislike camera botherers Neil and Janette could outdo them.

My point is while certain traits about the Cliftons may annoy you they are not alone in exhibiting said traits.

Any perceived bias is all in your overactive imagination.

However you must be thrilled at the speculation (of which this is the first I've heard and will take with an enormous pile of salt as it sounds like utter nonsense) about Mr Clifton Snr replacing Len..... as this would make the position of Kevin, Karen and Joanne entirely untenable and they would not be able to continue on the show.

I somehow doubt though that their father would go out of his way to attempt to compromise the livelihoods of his own children.

What was wrong with Scott and Nicky???

When the Cliftons are in Strictly mode, I don't like them very much but when they're not in Strictly mode, I really like them a lot

Scott was one of the worst dancers ever to take part in the show, so there's that. And I seem to recall Nicky being quite unpopular on here.

I do find Kevin irritating with all his OTT dances and mannerisms but I think he's toned that down a LOT this year - Louise has certainly brought the best out in him.

As for the girls, I don't mind them.

I do think Kevin should be given a "duffer" next year though. It's becoming a bit obviousl that he's a favourite with TPTB given this will be fourth final in four years.

Mine too. She absolutely shone in the West Side Story pro dance.
I also love her personality, she's hilarious.