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Begging - how bad has it become where you work/live?
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cessna
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“I just give them cash and let them spend it how they please. Food alone doesn't get you off the streets.”

>>>

The sadly departed LBC radio presenter Mike Dickin made us chuckle when he told of the night he went around with the Salvation Army handing out packs of sandwiches to London's cardboard city residents. They threw them back at him.
postit
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Andrue:
“I haven't seen any beggars for several years. Banbury may have it's problems but it doesn't seem to have beggars. Brackley certainly doesn't have them.”

I regularly count 5 beggars while walking down the High Street in Banbury. Late afternoon one day I saw the most prolific shouter being picked up in a new 4x4. Apparently he's well known and has a nice flat in a nice part of town.
MAW
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by stud u like:
“This does more harm than good. They could be drug addicts or alcoholics.”

More likely they are either a victim of, or a co-conspirator in organised crime. Giving them money is simply funding the self same bastards who supply drugs, run protection rackets and run bootleg fags and booze in from Eastern Europe. Quite a few of the beggars are trafficked, and compelled to do it. If you want to find real homeless people to give money to, I reckon the lot who are still hiding in shop doorways at midnight might be the real deal. Much of the daytime crowd are simply rented bodies.
Brandy211
12-12-2016
There,s been an increase to target Christmas shoppers.

I have observed people walking by, for every 5 or so that walks by, someone gives.

There is an increase of beggars with "disabilities", which is quite obviously more often than not faked, usually young but the odd elderly too.

The police & security seem to just walk by.

Most of these beggars have homes to go too. They aren't there after the shops close in the evenings.
I have also seen them arrive by underground together in the morning, then separate along the High Road, a few hundred yards from each other.

Directly outside the precinct entrance, or by cash machines, is a popular place to pitch for the day. Also outside busy supermarkets.

There are just as many North, South, East London, as in Central London.
jonmorris
12-12-2016
The ones that work the trains always have very comfortable, clean and new-looking branded trainers, and I'm sure that not only makes their walking more comfortable, but also helps them get away quickly if necessary.

If I ever get a pack of tissues given to me, I'll say thank you and keep them.

They may claim to suffer various conditions, but they can half shift when revenue inspectors board.
barbeler
12-12-2016
I'm getting sick of them being dropped off in a van every Christmas to sell The Big Issue. The same swarthy bloke has turned up every year for the last five or six years. The first year I felt sorry for him standing out in the cold so I bought him a bag of chips. A few minutes later I saw them in the bin next to him. In a nearby town there has been a young woman (or at least she used to be young), turning up for at least ten years now. I'm sure these are just professional beggars, but it makes me wonder if there is something more sinister going on and they are actually being controlled by the 'man with the van' who drops them off.
Brandy211
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Pink_Smurf:
“ It's not the first time I've wondered how beggars, buskers or other homeless have got hold of pedigree dogs. Of course there are genuine people who did own a dog who've been made homeless but I'm sure a lot of dogs with homeless people begging have been stolen. Poor dogs.”

A dog gets them more money. As people feel sorry for "the poor dog". They can earn more in a day than many who work full time.
The majority have homes to go to & receive benefits. If it wasn't beneficial to them earning so much cash in hand on the streets during the day, they wouldn't be there.
At the end of the day, its not uncommon to see them jump on a bus home.
I don't give money as it just encourages them to be there.
As for food, its no wonder they reject that too, when 50 or so people are buying them sandwiches or a pie each day! There,s only so many they can eat

Most of the beggars & dogs I see, look more well fed than myself!

A couple of days takings, is more than enough to buy a pedigree dog.

If they don't have a dog, some take to faking disabilities or making themselves look unclean. It used to be common to see women holding babies as that was lucrative too, but the police clamped down on that.
Brandy211
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by barbeler:
“I'm getting sick of them being dropped off in a van every Christmas to sell The Big Issue. The same swarthy bloke has turned up every year for the last five or six years. The first year I felt sorry for him standing out in the cold so I bought him a bag of chips. A few minutes later I saw them in the bin next to him. In a nearby town there has been a young woman (or at least she used to be young), turning up for at least ten years now. I'm sure these are just professional beggars, but it makes me wonder if there is something more sinister going on and they are actually being controlled by the 'man with the van' who drops them off.”

There,s a lot of profit to be made selling the Big issue. Usually on top of the benefits they receive.

You dont have to be homeless to sell it. They buy large quantities of the Big Issue for far less than the cover price.
You can become a vendor if your unemployed. They buy the magazines for £1.25 each & sell them for £2.50
www.bigissue.com/how-to-become-a-vendor
muggins14
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Pitman:
“when I read that I thought everyone was giving two grand

I'll stick to handing out some coinage, it seems that crisis don't provide special brew, so for that is where I come in ”

Haha

I can understand threads like this especially when we know there are organised (for want of a better word) beggars, but I do feel it's often used as a justification to ignore all those they may see sleeping in doorways at night, a desire to believe that all homeless and destitute are conmen or tricksters, that way it's not 'our' problem.

Here in Bath pretty much every shop doorway has somebody sleeping in it at night.
MAW
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by muggins14:
“Haha

I can understand threads like this especially when we know there are organised (for want of a better word) beggars, but I do feel it's often used as a justification to ignore all those they may see sleeping in doorways at night, a desire to believe that all homeless and destitute are conmen or tricksters, that way it's not 'our' problem.

Here in Bath pretty much every shop doorway has somebody sleeping in it at night.”

And probably twice that number of apparently homeless during the day. The scale of the professional beggar problem does the genuinely homeless no favours at all. There are quite enough off them to put the country to shame.
muggins14
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by MAW:
“And probably twice that number of apparently homeless during the day. The scale of the professional beggar problem does the genuinely homeless no favours at all. There are quite enough off them to put the country to shame.”

Yes, indeed.
Chihiro77
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by stephen122333:
“What do you expect a homeless person to buy, a wall unit? a suit? I wouln't judge them for 'wasting' it on drink and drugs, that what I do with my money.”

Exactly. 'I gove to the homeless but only if they spend it the way I want them to'. If i was sitting in a shop doorway I'd rather be off my face at the same time.
Chihiro77
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Brandy211:
“A dog gets them more money. As people feel sorry for "the poor dog". They can earn more in a day than many who work full time.
The majority have homes to go to & receive benefits. If it wasn't beneficial to them earning so much cash in hand on the streets during the day, they wouldn't be there.
At the end of the day, its not uncommon to see them jump on a bus home.
I don't give money as it just encourages them to be there.
As for food, its no wonder they reject that too, when 50 or so people are buying them sandwiches or a pie each day! There,s only so many they can eat

Most of the beggars & dogs I see, look more well fed than myself!

A couple of days takings, is more than enough to buy a pedigree dog.

If they don't have a dog, some take to faking disabilities or making themselves look unclean. It used to be common to see women holding babies as that was lucrative too, but the police clamped down on that.”

Is that a fact?
Gordon g
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Daisy Bennyboots:
“In town on Saturday, I was surprised to see gypsies handing out heather in a bit of tinfoil and basically leading people to the cash machine! It's worse than begging really because the invade your personal space and target people, usually the old. I thought that kind of begging had died out.”

I've not seen them for ages. They used to have some cheek though. I tried giving one old lady a couple quid once. She asked for paper money only.
HarrisonMarks
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by MAW:
“And probably twice that number of apparently homeless during the day. The scale of the professional beggar problem does the genuinely homeless no favours at all. There are quite enough off them to put the country to shame.”

I used to be an amateur beggar. I'd sit on a street corner asking people not to give me anything.
Pitman
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Gordon g:
“I've not seen them for ages. They used to have some cheek though. I tried giving one old lady a couple quid once. She asked for paper money only.”

she was probably joking with you, the homeless do joke from time to time, one bloke down Villiers Street always asks passers by if they have a spare grand
paralax
12-12-2016
There's only one poor soul who always sits outside a small shopping area near us, he has obvious learning difficulties and lives in a council bed and breakfast hostel, and has to be out all day, even in cold wet weather, so much for care in the community.

He is always so grateful for anything he is given, the shopkeepers give him hot drinks, If I go to the shops I often take him a sandwich, someone gave him a couple of jumpers last week, he was like a child being given a present, he never asks for anything.
cessna
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Brandy211:
“There,s a lot of profit to be made selling the Big issue. Usually on top of the benefits they receive.

You dont have to be homeless to sell it. They buy large quantities of the Big Issue for far less than the cover price.
You can become a vendor if your unemployed. They buy the magazines for £1.25 each & sell them for £2.50
www.bigissue.com/how-to-become-a-vendor”

>>>

This subject came up some time back when it was claimed that immigrants asylum seekers or refugees (or whichever) often chose to sell the Big Issue for up to 16 hours a week whereby they could be classified as employed or self employed which would then allow them to claim various benefits - including housing benefit.
Cant be sure of the precise facts so leave it to others to explain.
Ashenden
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Brandy211:
“
If they don't have a dog, some take to faking disabilities or making themselves look unclean. It used to be common to see women holding babies as that was lucrative too, but the police clamped down on that.”

There certainly was a specific offence of begging with a child/infant. If it's not been repealed, there still.

The most pathetic (or irritating) beggar I've come across was a student type walking through the tube train claiming he was homeless. It was blindingly obviously from the finger-sized streaks that he had simply run dirt over his face.

Tempting as it was to score a point by advising him of his error, I decided that I had no desire to make his guise more effective so I kept quiet.
LakieLady
12-12-2016
[quote=cessna;84874695]>>>

This subject came up some time back when it was claimed that immigrants asylum seekers or refugees (or whichever) often chose to sell the Big Issue for up to 16 hours a week whereby they could be classified as employed or self employed which would then allow them to claim various benefits - including housing benefit.
Cant be sure of the precise facts so leave it to others to explain.[/QUOTE

EU workers are entitled to in-work benefits, so you're quite correct. Work has to be genuine and meaningful or some such, and the test is usually sufficient hours to qualify for working tax credit, so 16 hours for single parents or people with disabilities, 24 hours for couples with children, 30 hours for single people.
Scaramouche
12-12-2016
When I used to work in Jobcentres in central London I had a lot of contact with homeless people.

The majority that I dealt with were genuine, although I know from work I did with Contact and Assessment Teams that professional (wish I could think of a better word) beggars were becoming a problem even back then. The CAT Teams were complaining that their hours were becoming more unsociable as they now had to go out after the tubes had stopped for the night as then the professionals would have gone home.

From my experience:

Many fell through the safety net of the benefit system as they were not deemed sick enough to claim sickness benefits but their lives were too chaotic to look for work, so they were constantly being sanctioned. Even those who tried found that without an address (or with a 'care of' address at a hostel or jobcentre) employers were unwilling to give them a chance.

Most were addicted to one substance or another, or several. I came to the conclusion that if I had to deal with half the crap they did I'd probably drink too, if only to get through a freezing night in a shop doorway.

On the subject of dogs many told me that they had a dog for two reasons, primarily for company but also to keep rats/ thieves/ rapists away when sleeping rough. Try sleeping outside with food in your pocket or bag and you'll either be constantly brushing rats away or wake up covered in them. Many felt safer sleeping during the day.

Most had been robbed and/ or raped (male and female) during their first week on the streets before they'd learned not to trust anyone. The younger ones had usually been pressured into sex work of some sort. The people who had pressured them always seemd so nice and helpful at first.

Pretty much all had been badly beaten up multiple times either by fellow homeless people or drunk passers by.

Yeah, I give them a couple of quid and stop for a chat if I have time.
stud u like
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by paralax:
“There's only one poor soul who always sits outside a small shopping area near us, he has obvious learning difficulties and lives in a council bed and breakfast hostel, and has to be out all day, even in cold wet weather, so much for care in the community.

He is always so grateful for anything he is given, the shopkeepers give him hot drinks, If I go to the shops I often take him a sandwich, someone gave him a couple of jumpers last week, he was like a child being given a present, he never asks for anything.”

Folkestone has an Amazon wishlist. More towns should.
WhatJoeThinks
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by stud u like:
“This does more harm than good. They could be drug addicts or alcoholics.”

Then again they might not be, in which case it does more good than harm. I'm willing to chance it.
muggins14
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by stud u like:
“This does more harm than good. They could be drug addicts or alcoholics.”

Does that really matter? Do you really think they should go through withdrawal whilst on the streets with nobody medical or other to care for them? Refusing to give them a few coins because they might use it on drugs or drink isn't going to make them 'see the light' and turn over a new leaf. A drink may keep them warm though.
Brandy211
12-12-2016
[quote=LakieLady;84875526]
Originally Posted by cessna:
“>>>

This subject came up some time back when it was claimed that immigrants asylum seekers or refugees (or whichever) often chose to sell the Big Issue for up to 16 hours a week whereby they could be classified as employed or self employed which would then allow them to claim various benefits - including housing benefit.
Cant be sure of the precise facts so leave it to others to explain.[/QUOTE

EU workers are entitled to in-work benefits, so you're quite correct. Work has to be genuine and meaningful or some such, and the test is usually sufficient hours to qualify for working tax credit, so 16 hours for single parents or people with disabilities, 24 hours for couples with children, 30 hours for single people.”

Selling the Big issue is different to working 16 hours though.

They buy copies at £1.25 which are then sold at the £2.50 cover price. It,s more like being self employed. They choose how many copies they want to buy & depending how long it takes to sell them, their hours would,nt be the same.

They could buy 50 copies and sell them in 2 hours, then the next day buy 100 copies etc
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