I don't get why it bothers people though. If you want to go to church, pray, and sing religious hymns on Christmas Day, it has no more effect on me than if I leave presents from Santa under the tree and enjoy a big turkey dinner and get drunk impacts your life. I've never encountered an anti-theist with such hardcore views about holidays, but I have come across religious types who see someone saying Seasons Greetings instead of Happy/Merry Christmas as an attack on Christianity, usually by immigrants and minorities.

For some - probably most - people in the UK Christmas has nothing to do with Christ any more. It's about santa, stuffing your face with Quality Street and watching crap on the TV so yes, people can very well do all that and still be a bit peeved about the bishops in the lords.

It's more hypocritical I feel for someone to do all that and then go off to midnight mass to pay lip service to a religion they ignore the rest of the year.

No I was saying religious Christians don't.

I'm a Christian and I partake in the trappings however I'm not a religious one ie go to church etc, I'm a Christian in that I uphold Christian values.

Religious Christians clearly do*... which seems to undermine you a touch.

*I know Jevovah Witnesses don't... but they by no means equate to all religious Christians

Back to my original question:


Do you know many religious people who do all that because from what I've seen they don't.

In case you'd forgotten it was in response to this:

'Now religious people opting into Santa Claus and trees in the living room, taking down the decorations by the 12th night, eating turkey even if its the only day a year you do... that is perplexing. But then again, chocolate eggs at Easter... they're into that one as well'.

I've never met anyone who doesn't

So nobody who goes to church regularly takes their kids to see santa, puts up an Xmas tree or has traditional Xmas dinner?

At the start of the argument I did say 'from what I've seen they don't' and it hasn't changed in the last 12hrs or so.

Very unusual. Which Christian denomination are they?

This had me bemused as well... i just assumed I totally missed the point of this particular segway. Even churches put up decorations and a tree...

I've never asked and why is it unusual anyway?

There is a church in Scotland called the Free Presbyterians or the wee frees and they have some very strange views on Christmas and how others celebrate it.
They don't like decorations and trees and just about anything that is associated with celebrating Christmas.
They are probably the most miserable folk in the world.

I guess it's unusual that every single person you've met who attends church, doesn't have a tree or Xmas dinner etc, as the vast majority will have the opposite experience.

Besides the point and debatable IMO.

Once again Xmas is a Christian festival derived from Christian beliefs and concepts, the nativity plays at school, Saint Nicholas, the Magi, Angels, religious carols and services etc all pervade the festival, speak to it's spiritual message and celebrate the day Christ was suppposedly born. This is an intrinsic part of the festival, not outlying antiquated traditions, or nowhere near as antiquated as some would like it to be.

Most festivals have an element of stuffing your face, taking time off and watching crap TV. It doesn't take anything away from the underlying message IMO. That is the birth of a man who had a radical message about equality, treating each other as you would be treated, and how you treat the lowest among you is how you treat God, because fundamentally everyone is equal. That message caught on in a big way and our more enlightened society of today derives a lot from that so credit where it's due.

If it's a slippery slope from a prayer at morning assembly or a few Bishops in the house of Lords to theocratic oppression, as some would have us believe, and if religious thought is such a malign inflence then fine put your money where your mouth is and lay off the celebrating. Noddy Holder belting out 'It's Christmasssss' is not the secular answer.


Not really. I'd say anyone taking some time to meditate on the true meaning of Xmas is always a good thing.

.........


You don't think you care too much about other people's opinions?
No-one can be hypocritical if they're not celebrating the birth of Christ, whatever that means in practice now. It means nothing to me.
The winter solstice is the most important time of the year for Pagans, which the Xtians hijacked along with most of their traditions.
Persecuting and slaughtering millions of us for centuries was just another of their spiffing unchristlike notions. At least I've been safe from the ducking stool in this life time which I know annoys the hell out of some people!! .

You don't think you care too much about other people's opinions?
No-one can be hypocritical if they're not celebrating the birth of Christ, whatever that means in practice now.
The winter solstice is the most important time of the year forPagans, which the Xtians hijacked along with most of their traditions.
Persecuting and slaughtering millions of us for centuries was just another of their spiffing unchristlike notions. At least I've been safe from the ducking stool in this life time. [/quote]

Not to put to fine a point on it Anne, and as someone who is very respectful of and interested in modern day paganism, I still have to admit it had a pretty bloodsoaked history itself in terms of human sacrifice.

And if it's ok to knick Xmas for the secularists why is it such a crime when Christianity did it.

Believing there is a 'true meaning' is an interesting idea. Many would say the 'true meaning' of Xmas is that it is a celebration of the Son of God coming among us. Would you agree with them?

Mmmmm ok, I'll give you that one

The funny thing is... the War on Christmas that this thread is about appears to be coming from Christians and no one else if they're the ones refusing to celebrate it like the rest of us Do the tabloids know?

Christmas is a time for families to get together. Most families have a mixture of believers and non believers, would you suggest that they stayed apart so that the atheist family members weren't hypocritical ?
How about the atheist Mam having a Winterville celebration on the 27th December with the kids and the religious Dad having one on the 25th ?
That would be daft wouldn't it.

Peace and Goodwill to ALL men

I could be wrong; I have not read every post; but I don't think any actual practising (i.e. Church going) Christians have complained about non-Christians celebrating as they see fit.

I would say the true meaning is in the message itself. Whether r not Christ was the son of God, we are all sons of God or we are just individuals in a godless universe, for me the message still stands as something positive.

Ain't that the truth. Some of my wife's family are Baptists; some of us are non-believers of various degrees of conviction. None of us have any problem celebrating something together. Common good will perhaps?

What message? From Who?

Thank you, and wishing you Gesealige Geol Anne.