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Corbyn's latest policy announcement to ensure Labour is unelectable - Ban petrol cars
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andykn
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Annsyre:
“It's taken years to fail to provide nationwide broadband to one and all so how long would it take to install power points all over the country?”

I already have a power point in my house. Let's face it, the broadband doesn't work nearly as well on gas.
CLL Dodge
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by platelet:
“It's a policy I can get behind. Now if he just promises to ban breeding children - I'll vote for him”

All the world's problems stem from too many children being born.
jjwales
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Annsyre:
“Why is he wasting his time considering banning anything? He will never be elected as PM.”

Considering policy options is part of his job.
Net Nut
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by SnowStorm86:
“http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7466301.html

Corbyn ensuring the deeply unpopular Tory party will win by a landslide in 2020.”

From link-

" Jeremy Corbyn considering radical plan to ban petrol car sales."

It's not banning all petrol cars just the sale of new ones so they can be gradually replaced by hydrogen and electric ones.

It's got to happen one day.
mungobrush
12-12-2016
This is the problem:

"John McDonnell is a big part of the reason we are seeing a radical shift. Under him the Treasury team won’t be the obstacle it was.”

Fiscal irresponsibility
sangreal
12-12-2016
About time too!

But only "considering", so still not a definite

Unfortunately, the current government are not even considering it.
Not only that, but they've failed to invest anything for the fuiture, and we're now years behind everyone else....

Norway to 'completely ban petrol powered cars by 2025'
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7065616.html

Germany moves to ban internal combustion engine by 2030
https://www.dezeen.com/2016/10/10/ge...gn-technology/

Climate change: Netherlands on brink of banning sale of petrol-fuelled cars
http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7197136.html

Several European Countries to Follow Norway’s Lead, Ban Fuel-Powered Cars
https://pedestrianobservations.wordp...-powered-cars/


Other European countries, Japan, USA (esp. California), S Korea, Singapore etc etc are years ahead of us in techologiy, with recharging stations everywhere, and all the latest (and affordable) models on the market (whether Nissan, Toyota, Honda, VW, Audi, Ford, Renault, Chrysler, Kia, or BMW & Tesla, etc etc).


But of course, Corbyn is ridiculed and called a radical nutjob by Tory/right-wing (and other) numpties and ignoramuses in the UK for daring to even just consider doing the same....

Whilst everyone else has been investing in technology over the past 6 years, all we've managed to do is more than double our national debt. But I guess that's alright, because we're a democracy, and 36% of the voting electorate voted for it....
david1956
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Vast_Girth:
“Its actually a very reasonable idea that has a great many potential benefits. It is already been seriously considered in many other countries.

Its a shame some people will write it off as 'bonkers' because it is Corbyn saying it.

The soundbite is nonsense of course. No one is suggesting we take away dave's white van. What it actually is a gradual phasing out of the selling of brand new petrol cars within a decade and as time goes on the rolling stock of today will be slowly replaced with non-polluting models.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7354281.html
David_Flett1
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by CELT1987:
“Electric cars wouldn't have fuel duty.”

It really is disappointing to see such a reply. I think it was obvious that I meant the tax attributed to fuel duty could be transferred to Electric cars. Maybe we could even save money by relieving thousands of people suffering health issues from air pollution at the same time.

Ten years is a long time in terms of technological development, just look at what has happened in the last decade. I’m sure there will be a solution to the battery problem just in the same way petrol cars became more efficient over time. More efficient cars reduced tax revenue so is it hard to come up with a solution for raising revenue on electric cars.

Perhaps you think we shouldn’t have moved on from the 50’s when smog resulting from old power stations killed thousands of people. I’m not a fanatical green supporter and I probably don’t even contribute enough to using better, more efficient energy saving appliances etc but maybe I should be more concerned than I am because I have now two wonderful young grandchildren and anything that improves their health is okay by me.
mungobrush
12-12-2016
Will Corbyn ban farting?
Methane is a bigger greenhouse gas problem than Carbon Dioxide

"Scientists say they are concerned at the rate at which methane in the atmosphere is now rising.
Methane (CH4) is a smaller component than carbon dioxide (CO2) but drives a more potent greenhouse effect.

"Methane has many sources, but the culprit behind the steep rise is probably agriculture," Prof Jackson told BBC News."

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38285300
smudges dad
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Annsyre:
“It's taken years to fail to provide nationwide broadband to one and all so how long would it take to install power points all over the country?”

At every house, about 5 minutes (yes, we have electricity in houses). In car parks - a couple of years (yes, electricity goes to car parks for lights etc). Rapid charging at service stations may be more of a problem, but technology is likely to sort this out. However, 400 mile plus journeys are rare, so it isn't a major issue.
BrokenArrow
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by smudges dad:
“Tory speak = ban petrol cars
Normal speak = looking at ways to reduce air pollution and save hundreds of thousands of lives”

You can save thousands of lives by implementing a 5mph speed limit on ALL roads.

We don't do it because we choose to kill people in return for faster journey times.
David_Flett1
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by CLL Dodge:
“All the world's problems stem from too many children being born.”

Weren't you one once?
OLD HIPPY GUY
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by jjwales:
“Considering policy options is part of his job.”

Damn, I started to type a reply to that, but then thought "nah sometimes the best reply is no reply"
John146
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by OLD HIPPY GUY:
“Damn, I started to type a reply to that, but then thought "nah sometimes the best reply is no reply"”

It's not a policy, is that what you were going to say OHG?
OLD HIPPY GUY
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by BrokenArrow:
“You can save thousands of lives by implementing a 5mph speed limit on ALL roads.

We don't do it because we choose to kill people in return for faster journey times.”

I miss the days when a man with a flag and a whistle had to walk in front of every car to warn people it was zooming up their street.

OLD HIPPY GUY
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by John146:
“It's not a policy, is that what you were going to say OHG?”

Nothing so short.
John146
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by OLD HIPPY GUY:
“I miss the days when a man with a flag and a whistle had to walk in front of every car to warn people it was zooming up their street.

”

I miss the days when the streets were so deep in horse s**t that you couldn't walk without slipping on yer arse
BrokenArrow
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by OLD HIPPY GUY:
“I miss the days when a man with a flag and a whistle had to walk in front of every car to warn people it was zooming up their street.

”

Showing yor age there old chap
paulschapman
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by BrokenArrow:
“You can save thousands of lives by implementing a 5mph speed limit on ALL roads.”

A classic case of reductio ad absurdum - the real difference in deaths is between 20-30 miles an hour - which is why all local roads in Hackney are 20mph - below 20mph the number of deaths that are saved is not that great.

The safest roads in the UK are motorways - which have the highest speed limit.

Quote:
“We don't do it because we choose to kill people in return for faster journey times.”

We could also reduce the number of accidents by the simple act of introducing autonomous cars - but that is going to take a decade or so before autonomous cars outnumber those controlled by a human (I reckon 20 years)
andykn
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by BrokenArrow:
“You can save thousands of lives by implementing a 5mph speed limit on ALL roads.

We don't do it because we choose to kill people in return for faster journey times.”

But choosing to kill people because you prefer to use petrol instead of electricity seems somewhat odd.
John146
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by andykn:
“But choosing to kill people because you prefer to use petrol instead of electricity seems somewhat odd.”

But, I presume that when we get upwards of 10 million electric vehicles that could/would need to have their batteries charged each day, are the pollutants from generating the electricity do this offset the savings from banning petrol fuelled vehicles?


http://www.parliament.uk/documents/p...generation.pdf
grassmarket
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by Aristaeus:
“Winged unicorns are just as likely as hybrid cars? Err... okay.”

People have been trying to create electric cars since, literally, the 1890s. The problems electric cars have today - underpowered by comparison to liquid fuel cars, range is too short, much more expensive then liquid fuel cars - are exactly the same as they were 120 years ago. It's my belief that if you haven't solved a problem 120 years after it was first posed, then you're probably never ever going to be be able to solve it. And probably that anyone who says you can solve it is a con man looking for free money.
andykn
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by John146:
“But, I presume that when we get upwards of 10 million electric vehicles that could/would need to have their batteries charged each day, are the pollutants from generating the electricity do this offset the savings from banning petrol fuelled vehicles?


http://www.parliament.uk/documents/p...generation.pdf”

Yes. Even if you burned petrol in power stations to generate the electricity it would still be less polluting as they can burn the petrol far more efficiently - no need to be running on idle or speeding up and slowing down all the time.
andykn
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by grassmarket:
“People have been trying to create electric cars since, literally, the 1890s. The problems electric cars have today - underpowered by comparison to liquid fuel cars, range is too short, much more expensive then liquid fuel cars - are exactly the same as they were 120 years ago. It's my belief that if you haven't solved a problem 120 years after it was first posed, then you're probably never ever going to be be able to solve it. And probably that anyone who says you can solve it is a con man looking for free money.”

Tell that to Tesla and the people that own them.
paulschapman
12-12-2016
Originally Posted by grassmarket:
“People have been trying to create electric cars since, literally, the 1890s. The problems electric cars have today - underpowered by comparison to liquid fuel cars, range is too short, much more expensive then liquid fuel cars - are exactly the same as they were 120 years ago. It's my belief that if you haven't solved a problem 120 years after it was first posed, then you're probably never ever going to be be able to solve it. And probably that anyone who says you can solve it is a con man looking for free money.”

Even 120 years ago the electric car carried a number of advantages but it was Henry Ford’s mass-produced Model T that dealt a blow to the electric car. Introduced in 1908, the Model T made gasoline-powered cars widely available and affordable. By 1912, the gasoline car cost only $650, while an electric roadster sold for $1,750. That same year, Charles Kettering introduced the electric starter, eliminating the need for the hand crank and giving rise to more gasoline-powered vehicle sales
By the 1920s, the U.S. had a better system of roads connecting cities, and Americans wanted to get out and explore. With the discovery of Texas crude oil, gas became cheap and readily available for rural Americans, and filling stations began popping up across the country. In comparison, very few Americans outside of cities had electricity at that time. In the end, electric vehicles all but disappeared by 1935

Not nearly with the urgency now - there are two things driving the adoption of electric cars;

1. Air quality - with more people urbanised they are suffering from poor air quality down primarily to vehicle emissions - and it is reducing life expectancy.

2. Climate Change - that we need to reduce the CO2 being produced by burning fossil fuels including petrol/gasoline.

The first turning point many have suggested was the introduction of the Toyota Prius. Released in Japan in 1997, the Prius became the world’s first mass-produced hybrid electric vehicle. In 2000, the Prius was released worldwide, and it became an instant success with celebrities, helping to raise the profile of the car. To make the Prius a reality, Toyota used a nickel metal hydride battery -- a technology that was supported by the Energy Department’s research. Since then, rising gasoline prices and growing concern about carbon pollution have helped make the Prius the best-selling hybrid worldwide during the past decade.

The other event that helped reshape electric vehicles was the announcement in 2006 that a small Silicon Valley startup, Tesla Motors, would start producing a luxury electric sports car that could go more than 200 miles on a single charge

Through the Recovery Act, the Energy Department invested more than $115 million to help build a nation-wide charging infrastructure, installing more than 18,000 residential, commercial and public chargers across the country. Automakers and other private businesses also installed their own chargers at key locations in the U.S., bringing today’s total of public electric vehicle chargers to more than 8,000 different locations with more than 20,000 charging outlets.

At the same time, new battery technology -- supported by the Energy Department’s Vehicle Technologies Office -- began hitting the market, helping to improve a plug-in electric vehicle’s range. In addition to the battery technology in nearly all of the first generation hybrids, the Department’s research also helped develop the lithium-ion battery technology used in the Volt. More recently, the Department’s investment in battery research and development has helped cut electric vehicle battery costs by 50 percent in the last four years, while simultaneously improving the vehicle batteries' performance (meaning their power, energy and durability). This in turn has helped lower the costs of electric vehicles, making them more affordable for consumers.

This is the point - while the current range of electric cars do not have the range of petrol cars - the increased interest in them will reduce both the cost of purchase and drive improved range - so since 1970 the range of an electric car has gone up 5 times (from 40miles to 200plus miles).

see http://energy.gov/articles/history-electric-car
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