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Corbyn's latest policy announcement to ensure Labour is unelectable - Ban petrol cars


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Old 12-12-2016, 14:56
grassmarket
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Tell that to Tesla and the people that own them.
Great news, comrades! Our Glorious Leader Jeremy Corbyn has had a wonderful idea that is sure to win back all our working class voters. We are going to outlaw cars that cost between £6,000 and £60,000 and force everyone to buy cars costing £72,000 instead!!!!
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:58
grassmarket
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This is the point - while the current range of electric cars do not have the range of petrol cars - the increased interest in them will reduce both the cost of purchase and drive improved range - so since 1970 the range of an electric car has gone up 5 times (from 40miles to 200plus miles).
So if you want to drive from London to Birmingham and back in the same day, you won't be able to do it in Corbyn's Britain.
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:58
jjwales
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Great news, comrades! Our Glorious Leader Jeremy Corbyn has had a wonderful idea that is sure to win back all our working class voters. We are going to outlaw cars that cost between £6,000 and £60,000 and force everyone to buy cars costing £72,000 instead!!!!
Why post something that you know is nonsense?
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:59
andykn
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Great news, comrades! Our Glorious Leader Jeremy Corbyn has had a wonderful idea that is sure to win back all our working class voters. We are going to outlaw cars that cost between £6,000 and £60,000 and force everyone to buy cars costing £72,000 instead!!!!
Not your original point. Can we take it you've run away from that and are now trying to base your argument on the rather peculiar notion that technology won't get much cheaper in the next 16 years?
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:00
paulschapman
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So if you want to drive from London to Birmingham and back in the same day, you won't be able to do it in Corbyn's Britain.
That is only 120 miles, electric cars can do 200
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:00
jjwales
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So if you want to drive from London to Birmingham and back in the same day, you won't be able to do it in Corbyn's Britain.
So get the train instead! No problem.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:01
paulschapman
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Great news, comrades! Our Glorious Leader Jeremy Corbyn has had a wonderful idea that is sure to win back all our working class voters. We are going to outlaw cars that cost between £6,000 and £60,000 and force everyone to buy cars costing £72,000 instead!!!!
Economics - as demand increases so to will the economies of scale reducing the cost.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:04
jmclaugh
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So if you want to drive from London to Birmingham and back in the same day, you won't be able to do it in Corbyn's Britain.
That is certainly an issue with electric cars along with the high price tag.

Economies of scale would suggest prices will fall as demand/production increases but increasing the range remains the biggest problem with them unless you travel less than 100-150 miles a day which I imagine a lot of people but not all do.

As opposed to banning petrol cars the best option would be to promote the advantages of electric cars.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:08
thenetworkbabe
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So if you want to drive from London to Birmingham and back in the same day, you won't be able to do it in Corbyn's Britain.
And there's 2 charging points at a few service stations - so you can stay at the travel lodge there, or eat burgers for hour,s while the car recharges. And, if you get it wrong before a service station , you will end up waiting for someone to bring you a cable from the nearest house?
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:12
thenetworkbabe
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Economics - as demand increases so to will the economies of scale reducing the cost.
Only if there's not a fixed price driver of costs, and only if rising demand doesn't increase the costs of some component. And only if the new technology doesn't have extra costs as it develops. You can a cheap modern TV yes - but the one you really like the picture on will cost you as much as the better ones did 5 or 10 years ago,
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:17
CELT1987
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That is only 120 miles, electric cars can do 200
200 if your lucky.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:18
paulschapman
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Only if there's not a fixed price driver of costs, and only if rising demand doesn't increase the costs of some component.
Short term when demand outstrips supply the cost of some components does increase but that then drives others to enter the market increasing supply and demand.

And only if the new technology doesn't have extra costs as it develops. You can a cheap modern TV yes - but the one you really like the picture on will cost you as much as the better ones did 5 or 10 years ago,
Not true as an example my dumb LED TV cost me £699. For £400 I can now buy a UHD Smart TV that is even bigger.

Even more so if you look at computers where you can now buy a computer called a smart phone for £600 that would have required £20m a decade or so ago.

That has been the effect pretty much for the last 200 years. Demand encourages other entrants that reduces the price.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:21
paulschapman
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200 if your lucky.
See the link I posted earlier, and 200 miles is the range of the latest TESLA cars. Model S 70D offers 240 miles of range and starts at $75,000 - which is still more expensive than the equivalent petrol car but not by much and they go up to 240 miles.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:24
jmclaugh
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And there's 2 charging points at a few service stations - so you can stay at the travel lodge there, or eat burgers for hour,s while the car recharges. And, if you get it wrong before a service station , you will end up waiting for someone to bring you a cable from the nearest house?
It isn't quite as starighforward as that. Charging times have improved but you are still looking at 6 to 8 hours if you plug it in to a household socket and this needs to be close by so you really need a garage or outdoor socket as it is strongly advised you never use extension reels. You are also advised to have your wiring checking as recharging requires a high electical draw. You could install a home charging unit which costs around £800-£1,000 which guarantee safety and can charge the car around two and a half times faster than a standard socket so that brings it down to under 3 hours.

If you have to park on the street of course the above is academic unless dedicated recharging facilities are available which is unlikely in most areas due to the high cost so recharging at work or in car parks such as stations is a more practical solution.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:25
FusionFury
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I actually liked Bojo's idea for Electric Bikes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...mb-stairs.html

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Old 12-12-2016, 15:29
stoatie
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Couldn't you just carry a spare battery?
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:35
John146
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Couldn't you just carry a spare battery?
Well a replacement Nissan Leaf battery will cost approx. £5,000.00

Bit expensive and heavy to carry about, as well as the practicalities of actually changing the batteries over
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:40
jmclaugh
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Couldn't you just carry a spare battery?
I think they are a tad heavy.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:42
MAW
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Couldn't you just carry a spare battery?
In your back pocket? The battery on my electric bike is a few kilos, and about 40cm long and 12cm thick. It powers my bike for about 40 miles of pedal assisted journey. The batteries in a Prius (hybrid) weigh about 200 Kg. The batteries in one of those Teslas they are talking about weigh pushing on half a ton.

The Prius is a load of nonsense because it carries the weight of 2 drive trains, neither of which will propel the car at any pace alone.

The tesla drive train and batteries makes sense in that it weighs about the same as a powerful internal combustion engine and fuel tank. And is about as involved to change.

Tesla overcome this issue by having dedicated super charging points. You can get 80% of a charge in 40 minutes. Have a coffee, take a leak, read the headlines, and on your way again, with another 2 hours or so of driving. You're supposed to stop every 2 hours anyway. Teslas are brilliant. Sadly, you have to be an Islington millionaire to afford one. I'd love one, but don't have the 70 grand going spare.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:56
CELT1987
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See the link I posted earlier, and 200 miles is the range of the latest TESLA cars. Model S 70D offers 240 miles of range and starts at $75,000 - which is still more expensive than the equivalent petrol car but not by much and they go up to 240 miles.
Until the price of an electric car comes down, no one is going to spend £70k on one.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:07
mossy2103
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Is it not likely that, in order to support all of the charging, the UK's power distribution network (at local level at least) would have to be upgraded? And of course there would be the extra demand placed upon the power generation facilities, especially during the winter months when experts are currently warning about the lack of standby capacity.

And who would pay for this (in addition to the costs of installing nationwide charging stations)? Ultimately it will be the electricity consumer.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:13
OvertheUnder
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Is it not likely that, in order to support all of the charging, the UK's power distribution network (at local level at least) would have to be upgraded? And of course there would be the extra demand placed upon the power generation facilities, especially during the winter months when experts are currently warning about the lack of standby capacity.
Nonsense Comrade, Our power stations are in working order and I do not know what you are talking about regarding standby capacity. The UK does not have a energy crisis.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:13
paulschapman
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Until the price of an electric car comes down, no one is going to spend £70k on one.
They are already cheaper than that - a TESLA is not the only option for an electric car, and you can pick up one for less than $30,000

Which of course ignores the point that technology changes and while they may be expensive at the moment - it does not follow they will be in 10-20 years time.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:15
grassmarket
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Economics - as demand increases so to will the economies of scale reducing the cost.
Well, why isn't it happening already? Because, given a choice between a conventional car and an electric car no-one except vain multi-millionaires can afford to buy an electric car, so very few electric cars are sold. Now, banning conventional cars would certainly increase the market for electric cars, so they would come down in price to a degree - but they will still remain hugely more expensive than conventional cars. Certainly out of the range of any historic working-class Labour voter.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:16
mossy2103
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Nonsense Comrade, Our power stations are in working order and I do not know what you are talking about regarding standby capacity The UK does not have a energy crisis.
I really do hope that was a tongue-in-cheek comment.
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