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Old 12-12-2016, 13:53
soma_
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Theresa May has announced a new definition of anti Semitism , one that the Labour party has accepted.

It appears by accepting this definition into law, it is also a tacit acceptance that the UK is a Zionist state. It is possible that criticising some aspects of UK foreign or domestic policy could result in being charged with being anti Semitic.

here is a brief definition but there is a longer version that is more wide ranging.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...me-jews-israel
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Old 12-12-2016, 13:56
Annsyre
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Theresa May has announced a new definition of anti Semitism , one that the Labour party has accepted.

It appears by accepting this definition into law, it is also a tacit acceptance that the UK is a Zionist state. It is possible that criticising some aspects of UK foreign or domestic policy could result in being charged with being anti Semitic.
What is the definition?
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Old 12-12-2016, 13:59
stoatie
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It appears by accepting this definition into law, it is also a tacit acceptance that the UK is a Zionist state.
It does? Not to me, it doesn't.
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:01
Sport1
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Theresa May has announced a new definition of anti Semitism , one that the Labour party has accepted.

It appears by accepting this definition into law, it is also a tacit acceptance that the UK is a Zionist state. It is possible that criticising some aspects of UK foreign or domestic policy could result in being charged with being anti Semitic.
Do you have any idea what Zionism is?
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:06
soma_
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:11
stoatie
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So why does the definition of "perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews" mean that the UK is "a Zionist state"?
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:13
soma_
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So why does the definition of "perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews" mean that the UK is "a Zionist state"?
You need to look elsewhere in the full version of the definition. UK is adopting the idea that anti Zionism is anti Semitic. It is this value that transforms UK into a Zionist state.

Zionism is not solely a Jewish sentiment / belief.
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:19
Mr Oleo Strut
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Theresa May has announced a new definition of anti Semitism , one that the Labour party has accepted.

It appears by accepting this definition into law, it is also a tacit acceptance that the UK is a Zionist state. It is possible that criticising some aspects of UK foreign or domestic policy could result in being charged with being anti Semitic.

here is a brief definition but there is a longer version that is more wide ranging.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...me-jews-israel
It's very sad that such a draconian law is necessary to counter such awful hate crime. Will the same sanctions be applied in due course to other forms of hate crime? Religious, political, national, racist etc?
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:26
soma_
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It's very sad that such a draconian law is necessary to counter such awful hate crime. Will the same sanctions be applied in due course to other forms of hate crime? Religious, political, national, racist etc?
Previous practice has shown that in terms of other religions the same protections are not offered.

Political, National, Racist - draconian laws already exist if they are needed.
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Old 12-12-2016, 14:39
Sport1
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Couldn't you show us exactly what you have read to come to this conclusion?
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:30
Doctor_Wibble
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So instead of saying 'Israel' people need to say 'the Israeli government', would that work?
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:36
Mr Oleo Strut
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Previous practice has shown that in terms of other religions the samce protections are not offered.

Political, National, Racist - draconian laws already exist if they are needed.
I need to be convinced of that, what those laws are and how effective they are.
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:50
John146
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I need to be convinced of that, what those laws are and how effective they are.
Don't know about effective but here is the law on religious discrimination:

http://www.religionlaw.co.uk/civiltext.htm
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Old 12-12-2016, 15:52
Dotheboyshall
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So instead of saying 'Israel' people need to say 'the Israeli government', would that work?
Only 80% of Israel is Jewish EXCLUDING the occupied territories.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:02
anne_666
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Theresa May has announced a new definition of anti Semitism , one that the Labour party has accepted.

It appears by accepting this definition into law, it is also a tacit acceptance that the UK is a Zionist state. It is possible that criticising some aspects of UK foreign or domestic policy could result in being charged with being anti Semitic.

here is a brief definition but there is a longer version that is more wide ranging.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...me-jews-israel

Not quite
More detailed guidance on this, released by the IHRA in May, said this could include criticisms which target Israel, if this was “conceived as a Jewish collectivity”. It added: “However, criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.”
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:03
soma_
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Here is the working definition that the UK government signed up to


https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/sites/default/files/press_release_document_antisemitism.pdf


eg:
Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:09
soma_
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More detailed guidance on this, released by the IHRA in May, said this could include criticisms which target Israel, if this was “conceived as a Jewish collectivity”. It added: “However, criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.”
Netanyahu states Israel is a Jewish State.

It would not allow the exclusive acts by Israel to be criticised because they are not levelled at other countries ?
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:40
Evo102
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Netanyahu states Israel is a Jewish State.
He was even seeking a couple of years ago to have that enshrined in Israel's basic laws (its constitution) - "the nation state of one people only – the Jewish people – and of no other people".

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
I don't see any problem at levelling that charge at the estimated 300 British Jews who at any one time are enlisted in the IDF rather than the UK armed forces.
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Old 12-12-2016, 16:46
Setantii
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I am now an anti-semite because I believe some Jews put the interests of the State Of Israel above that of their native country, which some do - Johnathan Pollard being the ultimate example.
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Old 12-12-2016, 17:06
Dotheboyshall
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Netanyahu states Israel is a Jewish State.

It would not allow the exclusive acts by Israel to be criticised because they are not levelled at other countries ?
Only two groups consider Israel to be a Jewish State - Bibi, his hanger ons & his thugs and anti-Semites.
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Old 12-12-2016, 17:09
Dotheboyshall
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I am now an anti-semite because I believe some Jews put the interests of the State Of Israel above that of their native country, which some do - Johnathan Pollard being the ultimate example.
Wouldn't that be non-Israeli Jews - presumably people like George Soros (Jewish financier), Janet Yellen (Jewish Fed Chair) and Lloyd Blankfein (Jewish Goldman Sachs CEO).
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Old 12-12-2016, 17:16
allaorta
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What is the definition?
According to a snatch of news I caught, anti-semitism would be defined as taking a critical view based purely on them being Jewish. I'd have thought that would come under existing laws.
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Old 12-12-2016, 17:44
worzil
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I think the law is assuming all Jews get along with each other.
That simply isn't true.
My late[ Jewish] employer use to say I have a few friends many acquaintances and lots of enemies .
Also what about the thousands of Israeli jews that demonstrate against their own government and the atrocities carried out in the occupied territories. are they anti semitic.
I am not and never have been against Jews some I cherise has friends but I believe we should have the right to criticize anyone or anything we don't agree with. .
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Old 12-12-2016, 17:52
anne_666
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Netanyahu states Israel is a Jewish State.

It would not allow the exclusive acts by Israel to be criticised because they are not levelled at other countries ?
Indeed.
Considering the UK's role in creating this undemocratic tyranny it's a damned hypocritical and dangerous way to justify it, when it also appears to be a way to silence concern for Palestinians.

This is about the October Commons Report, Antisemitism in the UK

Free Speech on Israel
Jews & friends who say antizionism is NOT antisemitism
Manufacturing consent on ‘antisemitism’ By Tony Greenstein.

http://freespeechonisrael.org.uk/man...-antisemitism/
Four and a half million Palestinians are subject to permanent military rule without any political or civil rights.
To call Israel a ‘liberal democracy’ is to render the term meaningless. By this definition Apartheid South Africa could also have been considered democratic.

The purpose of the Committee’s Report is a transparent as it is shallow. It quotes the ‘International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of anti-Semitism which in relation to criticism of Israel:
‘Applying double standards by requiring of it a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.’

The Committee demonstrates its ignorance since Israel is not a nation, nor does it claim to be so. It is a state of the Jewish people, regardless of whether they live in or outside Israel. Nor is Israel a democratic state since it rules over 4.5 million people who have neither civil nor political rights. It is an ethnocracy, in which settlers rule over a people who are considered guests at best. Where no less than 48% of Israeli Jews, a plurality, want to physically expel Arabs from Israel and 79% believe Jews are entitled to preferential treatment in Israel. It is clear that British people are remarkably free of anti-Semitic sentiments

The underlying assumption is that criticism of the State of Israel is somehow anti-Semitic. Because Israeli racism is based on its self-definition as a Jewish state, i.e. a state where Jews have privileges, it is assumed that criticism of its racism is therefore anti-Semitic.

Where the Committee’s Report becomes a threat to freedom of speech and basic civil liberties is in its recommendation (Para. 32) that:

‘For the purposes of criminal or disciplinary investigations, use of the words ‘Zionist’ or ‘Zio’ in an accusatory or abusive context should be considered inflammatory and potentially antisemitic.’ Anti-Zionism it is proposed should be made, in certain circumstances into a hate crime. This is the criminalisation of speech. ‘Zionist’ or its abbreviation is a political not an ethnic or racial category. That although 59% of Jews consider themselves Zionists, 31% do not. There are millions of non-Jews who are also Zionists, especially fundamentalist Christians. Is it anti-Semitic to accuse them of being Zionists?!
.
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Old 12-12-2016, 17:55
Dotheboyshall
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According to a snatch of news I caught, anti-semitism would be defined as taking a critical view based purely on them being Jewish. I'd have thought that would come under existing laws.
So if they were a - for example - a banker, you could legitimately hate them for being a Jewish banker as it won't be purely based on them being Jewish

Sounds a daft definition if so.
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