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Woman fails to pay for waste disposal so ends up with waste dumped in her garden
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francie
13-12-2016
" A waste disposal company took revenge on a customer who refused to pay them – by dumping her own rubbish all over her garden.

Video footage shows mountains of trash poured into the front garden of a home by Ainscough Skip Hire, that is based in Wigan, Greater Manchester. "

The rubbish had been loaded up in the unit to be taken away to a nearby tip but the homeowner, who is not seen during the clip, apparently would not pay the company. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvbHPmT2XYQ


Would loved to have seen her reaction

ETA: someone was at the top window looking out...
blueblade
13-12-2016
That's what skip hire companies routinely do, if a customer won't pay them.
francie
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“That's what skip hire companies routinely do, if a customer won't pay them.”

Never heard of it happening before and not something that's ever crossed my mind.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“Never heard of it happening before and not something that's ever crossed my mind.”

Me neither. I would have thought it would be illegal.

The legal thing to do would have been to take her to the small claims court. Being owed money doesn't give you the right to fly tip.
blueblade
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“Never heard of it happening before and not something that's ever crossed my mind.”

I worked for one temporarily in my youth, so I know what they do. Most customers pay up front when they receive the skip. If by the time the skip hire time is up, the customer is not willing to pay, or out at second call, then the contents will be upended onto the property and the skip taken back.

We'd post a note through the door if they were out the first call, and ask that they pay or be in and pay at the time the second call was made - in our case shortly after 8am two days later. First job of the day.

Too many instances of people having their rubbish taken away free of charge, then still refusing to pay for all manner of inane reasons and excuses.

It didn't happen often, but it did happen. Not illegal as it's their property, just as the skip was ours.
francie
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Me neither. I would have thought it would be illegal.

The legal thing to do would have been to take her to the small claims court. Being owed money doesn't give you the right to fly tip.”

Fly-tipping is illegal. I shouldn't imagine what this firm did could be regarded as "fly-tipping" and or illegal. Her rubbish returned to her property.
francie
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“I worked for one temporarily in my youth, so I know what they do. Most customers pay up front when they receive the skip. If by the time the skip hire time is up, the customer is not willing to pay, or out at second call, then the contents will be upended onto the property and the skip taken back.

We'd post a note through the door if they were out the first call, and ask that they pay or be in and pay at the time the second call was made - in our case shortly after 8am two days later. First job of the day.

Too many instances of people having their rubbish taken away free of charge, then still refusing to pay for all manner of inane reasons and excuses.

It didn't happen often, but it did happen. Not illegal as it's their property, just as the skip was ours.”

OK thanks. I obviously mix in different circles, never heard of someone refusing to pay skip-hire So this firm most probably would have contacted her etc before returning her rubbish?
tim59
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Me neither. I would have thought it would be illegal.

The legal thing to do would have been to take her to the small claims court. Being owed money doesn't give you the right to fly tip.”

Taking someone to the small claims court, does not mean getting your money back. You are not flying tipping you are giving them back thier rubbish, it would have been fly tipping if you had dump the rubbish were the skip was sitting
blueblade
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“OK thanks. I obviously mix in different circles, never heard of someone refusing to pay skip-hire So this firm most probably would have contacted her etc before returning her rubbish?”

I'd be surprised if they hadn't done so.

What was much more frequent was somebody paying up front, and the skip was still empty even after the skip hire time was up.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“Fly-tipping is illegal. I shouldn't imagine what this firm did could be regarded as "fly-tipping" and or illegal. Her rubbish returned to her property.”

Originally Posted by tim59:
“Taking someone to the small claims court, does not mean getting your money back. You are not flying tipping you are giving them back thier rubbish, it would have been fly tipping if you had dump the rubbish were the skip was sitting”

Whether or not they would get the money they were owed is a separate issue, but the legal recourse is there. Tipping without permission onto somebody's property, or even tipping with permission but without a permit from the local council, is considered fly tipping. The fact that they were 'returning her rubbish' doesn't make it legal either. If I was in the woman's shoes I'd report them to the council or the police.
francie
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Whether or not they would get the money they were owed is a separate issue, but the legal recourse is there. Tipping without permission onto somebody's property, or even tipping with permission but without a permit from the local council, is considered fly tipping. The fact that they were 'returning her rubbish' doesn't make it legal either. If I was in the woman's shoes I'd report them to the council or the police.”

If it was general rubbish from elsewhere I would agree. She couldn't / wouldn't pay her bill...were they supposed to do it all for free and hope to get the money due from court at some time? It's a business they run not a charity.

If I didn't pay my electricity bill I wouldn't expect British Gas to keep on supplying free electricity.
tim59
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Whether or not they would get the money they were owed is a separate issue, but the legal recourse is there. Tipping without permission onto somebody's property, or even tipping with permission but without a permit from the local council, is considered fly tipping. The fact that they were 'returning her rubbish' doesn't make it legal either. If I was in the woman's shoes I'd report them to the council or the police.”

And the company were legally collecting their property which was 1 empty skip. I am 100% with the company on this. Very little point in going to the small claims court if you are not going to gey your money back and cost money as well. I have seen builders take walls down they have built but not been paid for.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“If it was general rubbish from elsewhere I would agree. She couldn't / wouldn't pay her bill...were they supposed to do it all for free and hope to get the money due from court at some time? It's a business they run not a charity.

If I didn't pay my electricity bill I wouldn't expect British Gas to keep on supplying free electricity.”

Cutting off someone's gas or electric is covered by another set of laws entirely. I'm not saying that the skip company ought to run like a charity, only that they follow the law. The fact that the legal recourse doesn't always work doesn't give somebody the right to take the law into their own hands. You may as well say that if somebody doesn't pay you some money you're going to kick their door in or similar.

Originally Posted by tim59:
“And the company were legally collecting their property which was 1 empty skip. I am 100% with the company on this. Very little point in going to the small claims court if you are not going to gey your money back and cost money as well. I have seen builders take walls down they have built but not been paid for.”

Taking walls down is not illegal. Fly tipping, on the other hand, is serious breach of environmental health laws.
blueblade
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Whether or not they would get the money they were owed is a separate issue, but the legal recourse is there. Tipping without permission onto somebody's property, or even tipping with permission but without a permit from the local council, is considered fly tipping. The fact that they were 'returning her rubbish' doesn't make it legal either. If I was in the woman's shoes I'd report them to the council or the police.”

It's pretty much the same principle as when somebody's tree branches protrude into your property. You are legally entitled to cut them down, but not to keep them. You are, however, entitled to chuck them back over into their garden.

It's not fly tipping as it's the customer's own property, just as the skip is the skip hire company's property. In this case the contract has not been closed via payment, hence the action taken. I assure you it is not illegal.

It would be fly tipping and illegal, if the skip was in the street, and the contents were tipped onto the public pavement. But as long as every bit of the stuff in the skip is in the garden of the customer, there is no illegality committed.

We even knew cases where a skip was collected without payment, and the customer then contacted the company to say they'd changed their minds about some of the stuff in it, and that's why they hadn't paid.
anne_666
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“" A waste disposal company took revenge on a customer who refused to pay them – by dumping her own rubbish all over her garden.

Video footage shows mountains of trash poured into the front garden of a home by Ainscough Skip Hire, that is based in Wigan, Greater Manchester. "

The rubbish had been loaded up in the unit to be taken away to a nearby tip but the homeowner, who is not seen during the clip, apparently would not pay the company. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvbHPmT2XYQ


Would loved to have seen her reaction

ETA: someone was at the top window looking out...”

Tee hee? They'd given her 6 weeks to pay, what did she expect?
Her property, their skip back to their rightful owners and not illegal..

If it was fly tipping, which it wasn't
researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05672/SN05672.pdf
"On private land it is the responsibility of the landowner to remove fly- tipped waste and dispose of it legally"
tim59
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Cutting off someone's gas or electric is covered by another set of laws entirely. I'm not saying that the skip company ought to run like a charity, only that they follow the law. The fact that the legal recourse doesn't always work doesn't give somebody the right to take the law into their own hands. You may as well say that if somebody doesn't pay you some money you're going to kick their door in or similar.



Taking walls down is not illegal. Fly tipping, on the other hand, is serious breach of environmental health laws.”

You can call it fly tipping if you like, i could say returning property to the right full owner
francie
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Cutting off someone's gas or electric is covered by another set of laws entirely. I'm not saying that the skip company ought to run like a charity, only that they follow the law. The fact that the legal recourse doesn't always work doesn't give somebody the right to take the law into their own hands. You may as well say that if somebody doesn't pay you some money you're going to kick their door in or similar.



Taking walls down is not illegal. Fly tipping, on the other hand, is serious breach of environmental health laws.”

Being silly now, no-one is condoning damage to someone's property.

How can it be fly-tipping? Their own personal rubbish is simply transferred back to their property. They've not dumped it on communal ground, not caused any damage etc etc
blueblade
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Taking walls down is not illegal. Fly tipping, on the other hand, is serious breach of environmental health laws.”

Except that you'll find skip hire companies are very strict about what is placed in skips. Basically nothing that can present a danger to the public if left unattended.

This is something we were red hot on, especially because of dry asbestos. Potential danger to the public and the skip workers.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“It's pretty much the same principle as when somebody's tree branches protrude into your property. You are legally entitled to cut them down, but not to keep them. You are, however, entitled to chuck them back over into their garden.

It's not fly tipping as it's the customer's own property, just as the skip is the skip hire company's property. In this case the contract has not been closed via payment, hence the action taken. I assure you it is not illegal.

It would be fly tipping and illegal, if the skip was in the street, and the contents were tipped onto the public pavement. But as long as every bit of the stuff in the skip is in the garden of the customer, there is no illegality committed.

We even knew cases where a skip was collected without payment, and the customer then contacted the company to say they'd changed their minds about some of the stuff in it, and that's why they hadn't paid.”

BiB: It's not fly tipping as it's not an environmental concern. General mixed waste, on the other hand, has the potential to poison the environment, which is why even if you paid someone to tip refuse into your garden you would be breaking the law. Landfill sites are no longer just holes in the ground, they're specially lined to stop contamination and routinely monitored for gasses and other nasties.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“Being silly now, no-one is condoning damage to someone's property.

How can it be fly-tipping? Their own personal rubbish is simply transferred back to their property. They've not dumped it on communal ground, not caused any damage etc etc”

Forget the skip for a moment and consider that it's illegal to pile up your own waste in your own garden, for obvious environmental issues.

My analogy was meant to demonstrate that believing that you probably won't get the money you are owed by going through the courts does not give you the right to break the law.
seacam
13-12-2016
In principle I'm with the tip company, my question however is, was the lorry allowed on the green?
francie
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Forget the skip for a moment and consider that it's illegal to pile up your own waste in your own garden, for obvious environmental issues.

My analogy was meant to demonstrate that believing that you probably won't get the money you are owed by going through the courts does not give you the right to break the law.”

Forget the skip? That's the whole story, the reason why the owner's got their property back and why the business did what they did. Down to the householders re waste stockpiling in their gardens.

So what should they done? Fulfilled their end of the contract, free of charge, and hope they get the rightful fee paid somehow? I still don't feel they have broken the law but you seem to think they have.

Moral is if you want a service expect to pay for said service..don't want to pay then service is withdrawn.
francie
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by seacam:
“In principle I'm with the tip company, my question however is, was the lorry allowed on the green?”

I should imagine the council or whatever will deal / will have dealt with that. The company must have thought it was worth their while (or pocket) to do so.
blueblade
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Forget the skip for a moment and consider that it's illegal to pile up your own waste in your own garden, for obvious environmental issues.

My analogy was meant to demonstrate that believing that you probably won't get the money you are owed by going through the courts does not give you the right to break the law.”

Except they're not breaking the law.
OvertheUnder
13-12-2016
Maybe they are connected? Maybe paying homage to Richie Aprile?

Mob related perhaps?
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