• TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
  • Follow
    • Follow
    • facebook
    • twitter
    • google+
    • instagram
    • youtube
Hearst Corporation
  • TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
Forums
  • Register
  • Login
  • Forums
  • General Discussion Forums
  • General Discussion
Woman fails to pay for waste disposal so ends up with waste dumped in her garden
<<
<
2 of 3
>>
>
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“Forget the skip? That's the whole story, the reason why the owner's got their property back and why the business did what they did. Down to the householders re waste stockpiling in their gardens.

So what should they done? Fulfilled their end of the contract, free of charge, and hope they get the rightful fee paid somehow? I still don't feel they have broken the law but you seem to think they have.

Moral is if you want a service expect to pay for said service..don't want to pay then service is withdrawn.”

What I'm attempting to explain is why fly tipping is illegal, and why dumping a pile of mixed refuse into a garden, be it your own garden or somebody else's, and regardless of who owes money to who, is illegal. Evidently I have failed, and I cannot think of a better way to explain which you and others may understand.

Obviously it goes without saying that it is both illegal and immoral to not pay your dues, whatever they may be, and the woman was in the wrong.

Two wrongs doesn't make a right. How about that?
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Except they're not breaking the law.”

Yes they are.
tim59
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“What I'm attempting to explain is why fly tipping is illegal, and why dumping a pile of mixed refuse into a garden, be it your own garden or somebody else's, and regardless of who owes money to who, is illegal. Evidently I have failed, and I cannot think of a better way to explain which you and others may understand.

Obviously it goes without saying that it is both illegal and immoral to not pay your dues, whatever they may be, and the woman was in the wrong.

Two wrongs doesn't make a right. How about that?”

Well all this mixed refuse came from the one property, so its for the house owner to sort it out, what they do with thier rubbish in the garden is her problem. She could by all means pay to have the rubbish removed that would sort the problem out.
anne_666
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Yes they are.”

In festive style, oh no they're not.......

Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“What I'm attempting to explain is why fly tipping is illegal, and why dumping a pile of mixed refuse into a garden, be it your own garden or somebody else's, and regardless of who owes money to who, is illegal. Evidently I have failed, and I cannot think of a better way to explain which you and others may understand.

Obviously it goes without saying that it is both illegal and immoral to not pay your dues, whatever they may be, and the woman was in the wrong.

Two wrongs doesn't make a right. How about that?”

Instead of trying to explain it why not simply link the law which you claim makes their action illegal.
tghe-retford
13-12-2016
Could end up worse for the woman if there is a potential for the skip company to send a invoice for the labour required to dump the rubbish because that's time they'd want to be paid for.

And she could potentially be served with a section 215 notice which means she'll be required by law to clear up the rubbish they left! Now the evidence is online for the council to see.

If she rents, she's also in violation of any tenancy agreement she has and again, the evidence is there for her landlord to see, private or council.

The skip company could really rub salt into the wounds if they wanted to and she'd be powerless - something I suspect a few people would salivate over.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by tghe-retford:
“Could end up worse for the woman if there is a potential for the skip company to send a invoice for the labour required to dump the rubbish because that's time they'd want to be paid for.

And she could potentially be served with a section 215 notice which means she'll be required by law to clear up the rubbish they left! Now the evidence is online for the council to see.

If she rents, she's also in violation of any tenancy agreement she has and again, the evidence is there for her landlord to see, private or council.

The skip company could really rub salt into the wounds if they wanted to and she'd be powerless - something I suspect a few people would salivate over.”

Electing to perform a 'service' without be asked doesn't give anybody the right to send an invoice. Well, you could send an invoice but it would mean nothing, as she never requested or agreed to have her rubbish dumped.

I'm not sure what the terms of her tenancy agreement are, and neither are you.

She could well be requested by the local council to clear up the mess though, and the longer she leaves it the more likely it is that that will happen.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by anne_666:
“In festive style, oh no they're not.......”

...

Originally Posted by anne_666:
“Instead of trying to explain it why not simply link the law which you claim makes their action illegal.”

How about this?

Quote:
“Fly tipping is the illegal deposit of waste on land contrary to Section 33(1)(a) of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.”

According to keepbritaintidy.org:

Quote:
“Fly-tipping is defined as the ‘illegal deposit of any waste onto land that does not have a licence to accept it’.”

Bagshot85
13-12-2016
They were well within their rights to dump her things right back to her, considering she was trying to pull a fast one.
tim59
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Electing to perform a 'service' without be asked doesn't give anybody the right to send an invoice. Well, you could send an invoice but it would mean nothing, as she never requested or agreed to have her rubbish dumped.

I'm not sure what the terms of her tenancy agreement are, and neither are you.

She could well be requested by the local council to clear up the mess though, and the longer she leaves it the more likely it is that that will happen.”

Well looking on youtube seems there are a few clips. https://youtu.be/tj8dnOusHm4. https://youtu.be/tJziniEEMPo. https://youtu.be/Ts1K0Nntg_c
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by tim59:
“Well looking on youtube seems there are a few clips. https://youtu.be/tj8dnOusHm4”

I don't doubt that there are a multitude of individuals in the world that break the law. That's why we have laws, to deal with the people you see in videos like the one you linked to.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by Bagshot85:
“They were well within their rights to dump her things right back to her, considering she was trying to pull a fast one.”

I don't believe that such a caveat is enshrined in law. Do you, really?
tim59
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“I don't doubt that there are a multitude of individuals in the world that break the law. That's why we have laws, to deal with the people you see in videos like the one you linked to.”

Have you any links to show these companies have been charged for breaking the law.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by tim59:
“Have you any links to show these companies have been charged for breaking the law.”

Obviously not. Does the fact that some people get away with breaking the law negate those laws?

Spoiler
No, it does not.
a1pilot13
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“I don't believe that such a caveat is enshrined in law. Do you, really?”

Actually, it is the householder who is responsible for ensuring it is disposed of correctly. They have not done that by failing to pay for the service, therefore even if it is dumped by the company, they can be prosecuted.

Had it not been for her actions, the waste would have been dumped correctly as required.

Quote:
“Anyone who produces waste has a duty of care under section 34 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 to ensure that it is disposed of properly. Therefore a person may be guilty of an offence under section 34 if their waste has been found to be dumped, even if the dumping was carried out by someone else. The duty applies to both businesses and householders.”

http://www.tacklingflytipping.com/pe...gislation/1498

There would be an amusing irony if she is done for fly tipping on her own property.
Maxatoria
13-12-2016
They took their property back and left her with hers so the skip company is out of pocket but now words got around no one will deliver a skip without being paid in cold hard cash upfront to that address.
tim59
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Obviously not. Does the fact that some people get away with breaking the law negate those laws?

Spoiler
No, it does not.
”

Well with the video evidence you would think it would be a clear cut cases but it seems like not. What crime has been committed by returning property to the right full legal owners.
francie
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Obviously not. Does the fact that some people get away with breaking the law negate those laws?

Spoiler
No, it does not.
”

You can claim they were "fly-tipping" and carrying out illegal activities all you like, I don't see it that way. Good on them I say.
a1pilot13
13-12-2016
You put your rubbish in my bin, I remove it and put it back in your garden. Is this fly tipping? Of course not. Same principle as with the skip once you refuse to pay for the service.

No authority would prosecute you for fly tipping as it is clear it is not your responsibility to remove the waste free of charge, but the homeowners.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by a1pilot13:
“Actually, it is the householder who is responsible for ensuring it is disposed of correctly. They have not done that by failing to pay for the service, therefore even if it is dumped by the company, they can be prosecuted.

Had it not been for her actions, the waste would have been dumped correctly as required.

http://www.tacklingflytipping.com/pe...gislation/1498

There would be an amusing irony if she is done for fly tipping on her own property.”

While that you say is true, it is not true to say that this woman "knowingly caused" or "knowingly permitted" the tipping. In fact she wanted the refuse to be disposed of correctly. The fact that she didn't pay her dues is a separate offense, which should be dealt with accordingly.
tim59
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“While that you say is true, it is not true to say that this woman "knowingly caused" or "knowingly permitted" the tipping. In fact she wanted the refuse to be disposed of correctly. The fact that she didn't pay her dues is a separate offense, which should be dealt with accordingly.”

Well you see in law she has committed NO offence by not paying, as these are civil cases and the real only way for the company not to be out of pocket is to give her rubbish back to her. Going to the small claims court and even winning does not mean you get paid
blueblade
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“While that you say is true, it is not true to say that this woman "knowingly caused" or "knowingly permitted" the tipping. In fact she wanted the refuse to be disposed of correctly. The fact that she didn't pay her dues is a separate offense, which should be dealt with accordingly.”

Did you not read this bit:-

Quote:
“Anyone who produces waste has a duty of care under section 34 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 to ensure that it is disposed of properly. Therefore a person may be guilty of an offence under section 34 if their waste has been found to be dumped, even if the dumping was carried out by someone else. The duty applies to both businesses and householders.”

Anyway, you are forgetting that it is the person's own property, and it is not illegal for them to have a pile of rubbish on their front lawn, unless it's hazardous waste. It may break a covenant, but it is not illegal as such.

If it's old furniture or masonry, wood, bricks, glass and so on, that's not an issue legally.
WhatJoeThinks
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by tim59:
“Well you see in law she has committed NO offence by not paying, as these are civil cases and the real only way for the company not to be out of pocket is to give her rubbish back to her”

I was wrong to use the word 'offense'. I couldn't think of a better one is all. My point still stands. The fact that she didn't pay her dues is a no-no, which should be dealt with legally.

Anyway, I'm off to bang my head against a brick wall...
a1pilot13
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“While that you say is true, it is not true to say that this woman "knowingly caused" or "knowingly permitted" the tipping. In fact she wanted the refuse to be disposed of correctly. The fact that she didn't pay her dues is a separate offense, which should be dealt with accordingly.”

I want a gold Rolex, doesn't mean I can deprive someone else to achieve it.

It is unreasonable to expect a skip company to provide a service free of charge. Providing they attempted to collect the money several times, she knew full well she was attempting to defraud them by not paying.

It is not a separate offence, as by not paying her dues she terminated any potential contract that was in place. Therefore there is no requirement to remove the waste. As per my previous post, she has the responsibility to ensure adequate removal, which she failed to do. Really not a difficult concept.
a1pilot13
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“I was wrong to use the word 'offense'. I couldn't think of a better one is all. My point still stands. The fact that she didn't pay her dues is a no-no, which should be dealt with legally.

Anyway, I'm off to bang my head against a brick wall... ”

If you want to play this game, how about the company removing the waste and then the woman suing them for doing so because by not paying she had not completed the contract, therefore they had no contract to remove and destroy / re-purpose her property.

It's thin, but I can see it being brought up in court. Possibly even a defense to them trying to claim the fees.
francie
13-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“I was wrong to use the word 'offense'. I couldn't think of a better one is all. My point still stands. The fact that she didn't pay her dues is a no-no, which should be dealt with legally.

Anyway, I'm off to bang my head against a brick wall... ”

Meaning not everyone agrees with me.
<<
<
2 of 3
>>
>
VIEW DESKTOP SITE TOP

JOIN US HERE

  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Hearst Corporation

Hearst Corporation

DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

© 2015 Hearst Magazines UK is the trading name of the National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.

  • Terms & Conditions
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Complaints
  • Site Map