The boys will be overmarked... while Louise will be lucky to make it without getting a trout slapped across her face... by that insipid Bussell Woman!

Seriously the girl has no hope, none what-so ever! Unless Jamie has hired a callcentre just for his wife... phones ringing off the hook! Doesn't help 'em that Kev let slip there were testing times in the training room @ the beginning... Strictly is supposed to be one big "faaamleey" *Eastenders accent there*

I'll be cheering her on anyway!

Wouldn't it be great to have an independent judging panel, a different one every week, made up of ballroom and latin teachers/judges, who vote behind the scenes, and compare them to the votes from Len, Craig, Darcy and Bruno. I wonder what the difference would be.

I really don't get all these conspiracy theories. The judges will have their personal favourites - we all do - but that doesn't mean that they will publicly single them out for undeserved praise while pouring cold water on the chances of a dancer who has performed better. There are such things as professional standards to be observed. They are also aware that they are watched by an audience of millions, some of whom know a thing or two about dancing.

One thing that I have not noticed being mentioned elsewhere (and apologies if I have missed it) is that they actually have a better view than we do. I have read many critical comments of the camera work, which is set up to be as dramatic and impressive as possible - rather than to give an analytical view of the fine details. Usually the lights on the judges are blacked out during a dance, so that their presence won't distract. There was a dance a week or two back, however, (I forget whose) when a light lingered on Bruno. He was standing up, staring intently at the dancers' feet. It comes as no surprise to me that they spot things that I missed. They take their job seriously.

They can be inconsistent, of course. We all can. If judging a dance was simply a box ticking exercise, anybody could do it. A large measure of it, however, is subjective, and that is where the inconsistencies creep in. In Len's case, of course, whether he had pickled walnuts for his tea might also be a factor.

There wouldn't be any difference...

Everyone have their favourites and are drawn to different personalities and styles.

The "independent" Judges would be no different to the Judges we have now.
On this forum we all watch the same show & dances, but we all differ in our opinions which Celeb have danced the best or given us the most entertaining performance.

It's called being human

I think the opposite, Danny is surely Craig's favourite and I thought all the judges rate him highly.

I agree that Danny is Craig's favourite and I won't be surprised if he signs up Danny for one of his shows next year.

I agree all the Judges rate Danny highly, but I feel Len would love Ore to do the impossible and win tonight.

Good post. If one fan's favourite is downgraded by A judge or ALL the judges, then it's bound to be a fix. If that favourite is praised to the skies, everyone else cries fix. Can't win.

We have 2 cracking contestants in this final. (I discount Louise because for me, she's barely shown any signs of a personality). Let's just enjoy Danny and Ore and applaud the winner, without rancour.

Darcey definitely has a soft spot for Ore and rarely sees any mistakes but when she does calls them 'cute' ... she's a colleague of his after all.
Bruno usually loves everyone
Len's favourite out of the three would be Louise ... and then probably Ore.
Craig likes Danny best I think but then he's still quite critical of him. Danny will get better offers I'm sure .... he's much more accomplished than Lisa bloomin' Riley. He'd be great in Grease ... practically made for the part!

The judges were out of line with Jay last year ... usually they praise everyone to the hilt but they were critical of him and pretty verbal about who they wanted as winner. It put a dampener on the atmosphere of the final.

Remind me again which one are the judges/production promoting?

Jay had the most points going into that final, he underperformed and Kellie/Georgia were better then him on the night.

As mentioned all the judges have Danny well ahead. I'm pretty sure that privately they all want him to win.

Its a public decision tonight, the public are well in the rights to ignore the judges.

I agree.

Ore/Danny/Louise*.

*Delete as appropriate.

I put it down to the fever dream picking a Strictly favourite puts each viewer into.

In series six - they pushed like crazy for Lisa Snowdon to win and gave her a maximum score and in those days the judges's scores actually counted. It made no difference at all - she was still voted off first the only difference it made is they didn't have to comment on her shitty showdance.

And it's not just what we can and can't see in terms of technical details.

The whole feeling of a performance is different live in a studio or theatre compared to watching at home on the TV, as anyone who's ever been to a particular theatre production and then watched the self same performance on NTLive can tell you. If the BBC production team didn't whip up the Strictly audience into endless standing ovations, we'd probably get a better idea of what worked in close quarters and what didn't. Scoring by the judges is bound to take the live atmosphere created by a routine into account but we don't get that in our living rooms.

Ore and Joanne have realised this better than the other two couples, I think. And Joanne has taken good advantage of Ore's experience in using live cameras to best effect for people watching at home. The other professionals should take note of what she's done there because it's been kinda clever - there have been a couple of moments where it's been a little bit too obvious, but mostly she's leveraged this advantage her partner has really well to make up for his lesser dance experience.

Thanks That's the one I thought they favoured!

BIB. Sadly, I think that is exactly what they do do! I think the script was written for the semi-final before a step was danced, for example. Ignoring the actual scores, the positions on the leader board where just wrong! Call it a conspiracy theory if you like, but I'd call it 'an editorial hand' . The producers' job is to create what they consider to be the 'best' final and it would be naïve to think they have zero influence over the judging. We know they sit with the judges ahead of time to discuss the dances and I assume this is when they offer their 'guidance'. It's sometimes very obvious that the scripted comments are based on what they saw in the dress run. Len especially seems unable to deviate from his prepared comments when it goes differently on the live show. Last week, for example, Darcey (I think?) mentioned some gapping in Claudia's dance which just wasn't there. Perhaps she saw it in the rehearsal footage? You can then add their personal pet peeves and projects to the mix.....

You're right that the judges have a better view in some respects (we're often not shown the feet, for example), but we do get feedback from people who attend the show and that can be at odds with the judges' reaction - indeed the judges can often disagree with each other about what they've seen. Last week they heaped praise on Louise's dances, yet a poster who was there said they were very 'flat' in the studio. There will be times we at home get a better view (I'm thinking of whirling steadicam man getting in the way; times the dancers are facing/dancing away from the judges and to a camera; and of teapots and candlesticks )

I know this forum goes completely overboard about favouritism and conspiracies, but that doesn't alter the fact that they're making a TV show and TV is, by it's nature, manipulative.

Sadly I think you are right. Last year the judges clearly didn't want Jay to win and were praising Kellie to the hilt. However, what they don't realise is that a lot of the public can see through that and, in the end, they vote for who they want to win and not who the judges want to win.

Incidentally, there is a piece in the paper this morning saying the judges don't want Danny to win because he is too highly trained. I'm sure we cant put too much store on that but it might push people into voting for Danny.

It's never been, "fair."

The judging has always been down to the personal preferences of four entirely different individuals, only one of whom has "proper" ballroom experience. The others, making decisions based on no determinable criteria that can be accurately quantified.
All four have ably demonstrated over several years have had "favourites," or those they don't particularly like. How can you take seriously score totals where the individual assessments can vary by more than by twenty percent?

The show is open to manipulation. I bet the judges know exactly the number of votes each of the contestant gets in the previous weeks. It would be possible to determine who ends up in the dance off by deciding the position on the judges' leader board where a couple needs to be to ensure they end up in the dance off, given the percentage of the public vote they are likely to get. It ain't like Uni Challenge, it's obvious there's "conferring," though the BBC try to avoid the cameras showing it. It could even be discussed after any of the rehearsals on Saturday. It's also easy to influence some of the the public by remarks by the judges and sympathetic training videos.

Those are the possibilities. No one can actually prove any of that either happens or doesn't happen.

However given that of the last four, the three finalists are going on the tour and the one that isn't would never have been going even if they won, so really now it doesn't matter which couple wins. As I remember, the touring show isn't produced by the BBC, but I believe the BBC will receive payment for the "association," with the TV show.

The BBC will make a song and dance tonight about the judges scores being only a guide and it's the public who will determine the winner.

The winner is already known, it's the BBC.

If you can dismiss all the theories and just enjoy it as an entertainment show as do I, none of the above is really of any consequence.

I think this is key. In terms of the leaderboard I don't think the ranking itself has been out too many times - last week certainly and the week of Danny's Quickstep/Ore's Jive but maybe that's it. However the way critique is framed is becoming more and more like The X Factor to the extent that they've produced a nonexistent journey for Louise, played down Danny at every opportunity and mentioned thousands of time over on the main show that Ore NEVER DANCED BEFORE (Rhumbatugger mentions Danny's training hours whenever I say this but it's barely been mentioned, if at all, on the main show).

There's other little things as well - in Len's Lens last week three of the couples were given positives to focus on whilst one highlighted a negative, namely Danny and Oti. In the quarter final critique Louise was given barely any criticism yet scored lower than Danny and Oti, increasing the sense of unfairness towards the former and favouritism towards the latter. After the Samba Karen dropped, almost nonchantly, that there were 'many errors' in the performance despite it being 40, tainting the dance before it's second performance; maybe she realised the impact of this belatedly as she used the same phrase on more couples this week.

Then we have Len giving Ore a standing ovation for not even his best dance of the series last week and bellowing out the NEVER DANCED BEFORE phrase. We also had a 'whatever happens' dished out to Danny and Oti, which felt very X Factor in being a method of demotivating support.

They'll have to go some to beat the sourness and surliness of last year's final and, due to the framing being put in place earlier in the run this time round (unlike Kellie and Kevin who were only pushed late on) they may not need it to be to get the result they want.

He underperformed in your eyes, not mine and many others, which is why he went on to win it, as well as being the least annoying

Totally agree. Jay was never an in your face dancer like Kellie, he was always understated but this was what a lot of people liked about him.

Not everybody likes the gurning, throw everything but the kitchen sink type of dance.

I forgot about the gurning and the screaming from she and Georgia; so cringey

He might not have underperformed, he was just the worst dancer on the night. Like Chris Hollins who didn't underperform on the night, just not the best dancer.

Jay was not annoying, he didn't really show much of any character at all to make anybody dislike him. How many people dislike water?



Maggie

Hi fridge - you've summed it up!

The whole point for the Beeb is to produce ratings winning Saturday night entertainment. They don't tamper with the public vote and I don't think they're bothered in the slightest who wins. But they DO want to wring out as much tension/drama from the proceedings as they possibly can - and, most importantly, keep us coming back for more.

To that end I think they do as much as they can get away with to influence the voting public to toe that week's particular party line. I agree that the judges' script is probably pretty much agreed before the show airs, and it can lead to some interesting discrepancies between what WE see and what THEY say!

The only competition that matters is the ratings war.

very sensible.

how on earth did you pass the forum entrance exam