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Is the west preparing for war with Russia
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ricksb
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Lyricalis:
“No I don't know that the US has interfered in UK elections or that it has assassinated people in the UK.”

But there is no definitive proof the russian government were behind the assassination or the election interference.
alfamale
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Rae_Amury:
“My thoughts too.

For quite some time, and it started before Crimea and Sochi, the media were showing a lot of hostility to Russia. Everything Russia did was somehow criticized and turned into a scandal. From politics to economy and sport. Its when I started to feel that something is changing, that maybe certain decision or direction was taken by the West and its graually intensifying as they are preparing to launch whatever their plan is. Just look now, they are openly accusing Russia from such things as war crimes, genocide and manipulation of elections. All of those enough to be used as reasons to military action against Russia. I too feel like the mainstream media are preparing people for such possibility and manipulating them into supporting their government if they decide to proceed with whatever they have planned, and I do think it can be a war against Russia. Im not really someone who buys into conspiracy theories, and this certainly sound like one, but this time, I just cant help and feel scared.”

I very much agree with your take on the west and western media becoming more hostile to Russia. I'm less worried than you that things will escalate though. But it is worrying and disappointing that this propaganda seems to be working, one or two posts here confirm it. But go beyond people interested in politics and russia seems to rapidly becoming the big bad enemy again.

I don't like Putin, and he is very nationalistic, but that doesn't make this western propaganda true of him being a threat to us or about to invade any baltic states. Remember the whole Warsaw pact countries used to be russian allies, and the baltic states used to be russia. Who's advancing on who exactly from this map:
http://dartstrade.ru/uploads/images/...01original.png

Perhaps Russia are equally uncomfortable and this is what they see:
http://www.defenddemocracy.press/wp-...ussia-NATO.jpg

.... and from countries that used to be Russian or their allies.

Similarly Russia has very few allied countries in Middle East, a place presumably important to the economy of world powers. Hence the US arming rebels in Syria to overturn Assad and put a western facing leader in charge perhaps?
http://www.juancole.com/images/2012/08/crisis3.jpg

And making a slightly uneducated guess presumably that's what Ukraine is about, a russian ally that has strategic importance to the russian economy? Which has now been replaced, with the help of the US, by a western facing govt thinking about joining the EU.

So all this russian military action seems to be them protecting what they've got whilst we seem to be out to shrink them further. Please may we all stop before it gets out of hand
NilSatisOptimum
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jason_Cunningha:
“Is this what this surge in anti Russian propaganda is all about? Are they trying to mobilize public support for war with Russia just like the Iraq war? Are people going to fall for it just like the Iraq war?”

No direct war, yes to a proxy..
Aleppo has just been good spin, to move the British public attention away from our Government involvement in Yemen, Putin is the perfect pantomime villian to do this. There is no doubt Russia is in expansionist mode, having full Naval presence in Mediterranean is well established fact in achieving this, also I believe there will some be attempt re-establish Russian empire back into the Baltics, however, Putin will use local embedded influences, this will avoid any direct responses from NATO etc.
With Trump about to take reigns who knows, actually don't think he knows himself really, he might just embolden Russia similar to what the West did with Germany in the early 1930s, that's worst case scenario.
Anyway, don't think the establishment of the West could mobileze it's people to go to war as it's done in the past.
David (2)
18-12-2016
Might be a good time to point out that while many don't like the Crimea, Ukraine thing, it doesn't mean we have a view that Moscow should be wiped out - we don't live in the 1960s anymore - and even as a child of the 80s era I find that equally as ridiculous as wiping out London, or Paris, or New York.

Russian influence around the world, such as the Russian base in Syria - my opinion is that things should remain. I don't have any desire to push out Russian bases, to cutback that precence. I don't see an issue for us, if they have been their for 50 years (example) then what's the problem now?
But do our elected Officials have a different view....are they trying to get rid of Russian influence? Well it won't work, because Putin has a character similar to ours or the Americans, he will protect his interests.....I mean, we went down to the Falkland Islands in the early 80s.....
Blockz99
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Jason_Cunningha:
“Is this what this surge in anti Russian propaganda is all about? Are they trying to mobilize public support for war with Russia just like the Iraq war? Are people going to fall for it just like the Iraq war?”

I think you'll find that its Russia that has been taking up a war with the West over the past 18 months as deflection for their poor economy . In one poll %50 of Russians expect nuclear war with the West I doubt that figure would be equalled in the West . But there is some anti Russian feeling in the West palpable over the past year this due to Ukraine , Georgia and the threats to the Baltic states oh and a little of matter of Putin showing up the Wests ineptitude in Syria .
Blockz99
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Rae_Amury:
“My thoughts too.

For quite some time, and it started before Crimea and Sochi, the media were showing a lot of hostility to Russia. Everything Russia did was somehow criticized and turned into a scandal. From politics to economy and sport. Its when I started to feel that something is changing, that maybe certain decision or direction was taken by the West and its graually intensifying as they are preparing to launch whatever their plan is. Just look now, they are openly accusing Russia from such things as war crimes, genocide and manipulation of elections. All of those enough to be used as reasons to military action against Russia. I too feel like the mainstream media are preparing people for such possibility and manipulating them into supporting their government if they decide to proceed with whatever they have planned, and I do think it can be a war against Russia. Im not really someone who buys into conspiracy theories, and this certainly sound like one, but this time, I just cant help and feel scared.”

You're confusing the justifiable reporting of rampant political and economic corruption in Russia with a campaign against Russia . There are many cases in the West where the MSM report and expose political and economic corruption - is this also a campaign against the West by its own MSM ?
You don't think state sponsored doping of athletes should be reported as it might be seen as a campaign ?
The Russians do themselves not favours when their politicians and ministers screams "fix" when they loose eurovision
Parker45
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Blockz99:
“I think you'll find that its Russia that has been taking up a war with the West over the past 18 months as deflection for their poor economy . In one poll %50 of Russians expect nuclear war with the West I doubt that figure would be equalled in the West . But there is some anti Russian feeling in the West palpable over the past year this due to Ukraine , Georgia and the threats to the Baltic states oh and a little of matter of Putin showing up the Wests ineptitude in Syria .”

What specific threats has Russia ever made to the Baltic states? All I've ever heard is nothing more than speculation by western politicians and media.
Blairdennon
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Lyricalis:
“You mean they pointed out how stupid leaving the EU was? I think pretty much everyone outside the UK agreed with them on that. Frankly, it'll go down as one of the stupidest decisions any major country has made in recent history.”

They interfered. Which was the point. I think there are many on the continent who think good on us. They may not be majorities, yet, but are winning ground all the time. I personally see no stupidity in trying to keep the control of your own country in your own country; but there you go it is all opinion.
Parker45
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Parker45:
“What specific threats has Russia ever made to the Baltic states? .”

No response I see. Perhaps because the answer is that there haven't been any.
corf
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Lyricalis:
“You mean they pointed out how stupid leaving the EU was? I think pretty much everyone outside the UK agreed with them on that. Frankly, it'll go down as one of the stupidest decisions any major country has made in recent history.”

In your opinion.......In my opinion it was a very good decision.

It was the worst interference I have seen in my lifetime. Obama and his tv speach probably cost remain its chance. The country didnt like the speech and the threats coming from an outside influence. More interference than Putin's reportedly dodgy fake news articles.
Jim_McIntosh
26-12-2016
The West, Russia, and China now too are definitely gearing up for something. I hope it's all defensive bluffing and no-one has any plans for more wars.
oncemore
26-12-2016
No. So long as Russia remains a middling regional power then there's no reason to fight them. If they push to expand their borders again then there will be problems.
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