At one point most police were ex-military so knew what was what shall we say as my uncle was ex-national service and in some ways it was an easy way at the time to get a job that didn't generally involve dodging bullets.

Would anyone trust a police officer who has spent 3 years at uni getting a degree who when confronted with a guy with a baseball bat just goes "wibble wibble and heads to the corner".

Nursing is a completely different job now. It used to be very task based, essentially what hca's now do. It was also do as the Dr says. It is now very different to that. Nurses are now doing what Dr's used to do. We have nurses performing surgery,diagnosing,prescribing,ordering tests,analysing test results,analysing pharmacology,carrying out procedures.it's not just giving out medications.If a dr needs a degree to do all that why doesn't a nurse?

Still not answered my question but simply spouted a load of stereotypical tabloid nonsense. So many inaccuracies in this post I don't know where to start. However, I have just got home from an evening shift and am very tired.

Who does it benefit? It benefits patients and nurses alike.

Can't do links but if you bother to read any nursing journals you will see the research for yourself....not going to do it for you.

I don't need to defend anything...I have been a nurse for 40 years. I have seen both types of nursing and I certainly know which I prefer.

Don't believe the research if you wish to bury your head in the sand. How could anyone think a better educated nurse is not a good thing, I will never know. A whole host of allied health professionals are educated to degree level, yet nobody questions their need for a degree.

Most people who have no connection with nurses have little idea of the responsibilities of modern nurses.

However, this thread is about the police service. As I know very little about police work I choose not to express an opinion on the matter.

I think it's a great idea. educated, intelligent people are the best. I feel happy just to talk to them sometimes, there's not many of them round here. I notice it when I visit my GP, probably the only educated person in my village

Cadet nurses started at 16. Pre-registration training at 18.

Student nurses still learn on the job. 50% of their training is spent on clinical placements.

The whole point about policing in Britain is that it was based on ordinary citizens Policing fellow citizens. If you make all the Police have degrees you are taking away the ordinary part of it. In my experience as an ex Police Officer, those who had degrees were no better Police Officers than those without and in a lot of cases worse. Big big mistake.

Pharmacists, and Drs need a degree, and rightly so, in their specialised subject, and they prescribe and dispense medication.

Others can be trained to carry out their instructions without a degree.

Which is another way of doing what has always happened, without the pressure of requiring a degree.

As long as training is geared towards the right areas, the legal and procedural matters can be learned, but the real training is doing the job, and that cant be taught in a classroom. it really cant.

i`ll refer you to the recent posts - by nurses just up there ↑↑↑ - who have explained why they very much DO need a degree and how nursing duties have become more clinical.

Could also be an expensive waste of time for people. What if once spending thousands on getting a policing degree, then find they can't get in?

For example; the vetting process is very strict, so you could gain the degree and find you fail the vetting (they also vet your close relitives and associates, and people do fail because of a conviction a relitive has).

Then there is the existing process, which includes dynamic high pressure senario based tests. Some of the most well qualified people fail under the pressure and confrontation.

Also, many people simply can't do it. They are bright, qualified and lovely people - but when someone shouts at them, attacks them, or pulls out a knife etc, they crumble or hide behind other officers, or simply avoid confrontation at all costs. Most people don't know until they start the job if they can cope with say, a dead child in a messy road accident. They might be find in a classroom and get a 1st degree, but by useless in an actual life/deal situation. I've seen it many times, and they often quit. That can happen with any profession, but it's especially noticeable in policing. Retainment is an issue. And there aren't many jobs were you have to run towards extreme, potentially mortal, danger when everyone else is running away. A degree will not make you the type of person who can do that, nor will it identify those that can and cannot.

Another thing - it could be a few years from starting the degree to getting into the police. So what if you picked up an injury or illness in that time that would prevent you getting in (they are very strict).

So who will they deal with these issues? If they reduce/water down the vetting, and do away with the existing entry tests, they will open the gates to hell in my opinion. But if they don't, then a lot of people will spend years and thousands of pounds on an obsolete qualification.

You need a degree to prescribe, but dispensing is very different. My Mrs manages a pharmacy, is the senior dispenser and then incharge of all the stock taking, but she doesn't have a degree.

That last part is complete rubbish.

I joined in the 1970's and by then the height restriction was 5'8*, hardly giant size. I will admit there were many vacancies back then, due to awful pay, but a big benefit was the provision of police houses, and a career with a good pension at the end of 30 years.

People from all walks of life were joining, and luckily by the end of the decade pay increased to a much better level.

It's not a job anyone can do though, and being "thick" was not deemed a required quality.

It was a more disciplined service back then, and quite a few fell by the wayside during training. Ex services personnel coped well with that side, and a good number did join.

However, no previous experience, "thick" or "degree" qualified, guarantees whether someone will be any good at the job. The wide range of duties, many extremely unpleasant, and highly stressful, cannot be recreated in any type of training. Experience is the real decider on who can do the job.

it`s unworkable from every angle really.

and ridiculous.

But surely there is a qualified Pharmacist overseeing it.

Also something many have forgot, or don't realise, is that a few years ago they did introduce degrees for officers (not sure if all forces did). Once in the job and having passed their probation, they would study for a degree.

Due to a number of issues, they dropped this idea as they thought it added very little value.

One of the issues was that there was no one size fits all option. For example, an officer working on front line response has a very different job to that of someone in PVP, who do multi agency working and slow time investigating with vulnerable people etc.

They also found it did not make people a better police officer in general, because the best qualities of an officer can't be taught in a degree.

You still have to gain a qualification, but it's a diploma now and not an entry requirement.

No, it's just at a local GP surgery, there is no qualified pharmacist there, as it's not a stand alone pharmacy.

I am married to a nurse, and two of my best friends are nurses. I also spend a lot of time working with nurses. think this comparison between nursing and policing is a massive red herring, there might be some parallels, but they are fundamentally different in many ways.

I see. That would mean the Drs are in overall charge though, the same way a Pharmacist is at a Pharmacy.

I agree with the above post though, the two jobs discussed are very different. Training is vitally important, and whether a degree is the best way for nurses to qualify, I dont really know. I would agree that someone can be trained to be in charge of dispensing, without a degree, as in your wifes case.

For policing though, a degree is not a practical way to make a good police officer. Monkey Moo has made excellent points in relation to current practices, and despite his degrees, accepts they are not needed to do the job.

Ridiculous idea. My dad was a policeman, he left home at 15 and joined the armed forces. On leaving the forces he had a very low paid job in the marine world. He then joined the police and was very, very good at his job, so much so he was made acting sergeant within just a few years. He was a sergeant when he took early retirement a couple of years ago. The police don't need degrees to be good at their job.

Not even criminal psychology or forensic science?

I agree that you shouldn't necessarily have to have a degree to join the police initially but if someone wants to become a detective etc then having an I'm house degree course in criminal psychology or along similar lines would be good.

They are not 'qualities'. Qualities are decision making, empathy, managing under pressure and in extremely stressful situations, emotionally strong in the face of horrendous tragedy, communication skills, initiative and team working... to name a few. You need those before any qualification. Pretty much anyone can gain a qualification, so long as you are prepared to study.

Also Police officers don't degrees in forensics, they just need to be forensically aware. Scenes of crime officers do all that.

As for detectives having a degree in criminology would be massive over kill. That would only cover a small part of there role. They already have to study and take quite hard exams.

Police Officers dont do those jobs.

A degree is not required for CID work either. I'm not sure what current practice is, but I did a 10 week CID course, which was extremely intense, which taught us criminal law to a high standard, as well as covering all other aspects of the job. Guest speakers from other agencies, such as those you list, gave talks on what we needed to know about their jobs.

Before going on the course, you had to have proved you were the type to do that role, and we had to have worked as an aide in CID beforehand, gaining huge experience from those already doing the job.

Traffic had similar methods, and training to do that job too.

A degree would have been a huge waste of time.

It is not a "red herring"
The comparison is about the qualifications, do you do a better job with a degree or qualification is the question

There is not a definitive answer to that, because everyone is different. I think the real question is "do you need a degree to be able to do the job?"

The answer is certainly no in relation to policing.