How will we be better off. You've failed to explain how so far.

I suggest you read what I have already said.

Also on top of that is regaining our sovereignty over our own constitution and laws, being able to plan our infrastructure and the needs of a first world society properly etc

How do you know how much electricity, water, schools, hospitals, police, public transport, roads etc etc you will need to plan for in 10, 20, 30 years time if you have no control on the numbers entering the country?



Maggie

I have read it and so far all you have done is contradict yourself.

People come here to work, are you now telling me a benefit is we are going to shrink our economy because of our inability to plan

There will be no viable economy if we cannot secure a reliable energy supply.

How much extra generating capacity will we need in thirty years time given we are committed to closing our coal fired plants which provided 22% of our current capacity in 2015. Hinckley Point will add only 7% capacity at a cost of 30 billion and will take ten years to build.

So come on, if you were the Government how much capacity would you be planning for, where would you get your population figures from, when would you start building it, where is the money coming from?

That is just one of the infrastructure items a first world nation needs to plan for, it can't just wait and see what things are like in thirty years time, all the lights will be off for a start!




Maggie

Your comments are nonsense. The UK has had every opportunity to limit benefits payable to EU and non EU citizens but has failed to do so. And as regards non-EU immigrants the government has total power and spectacularly failed to apply it. They just have no idea who has entered the country illegally. It's no good blaming anybody else for this shambles. Blame yourself.

I would look at how much we predict to grow the economy, how many people we need to achieve that, add a little more in the hope we grow further, and base needs on that.

As you are claiming leaving the EU is going to be of great economic benefits, we are going to need a lot of workers.

I am not talking about the immigration we control, I am talking about that which we cannot.

We can plan for that which we control. Non-EU migration happens because we allow it pure and simple. We needn't and could stop the vast bulk overnight if we wanted and thought it was in our best interests.

Like Australia, Japan, Saudi Arabia etc etc, they decide who comes in permanently and their laws reflect this.

Ignore the Tory politicians railing against immigration, they are lying to you for electoral benefit. If they wanted to stop non-EU migration they could do so. They don't because it suits them and their backers.



Maggie

Basing your planning on the state of the economy instead of population would be ludicrous. Who can predict what industry or the service sector will look like? What new ideas and processes will emerge. Who could have predicted today's IT revolution, internet, social media, etc etc thirty years ago.

The Governor of the B of E states he thinks there will be a revolution in automation in the coming years, who knows how many workers will be needed and what sectors?



Maggie

Piece today on Sky website that someone sometime soon is going to have to come out and tell the public that what the stuff said about Immigration in Leave campaign is not true. Government know as they always did know that many industries are totally reliant on immigrant labour. They are meeting with every industry group and assessing how many immigrants are needed. Not far short of what we have now. Boston will need more immigrants not less. They might have to take middle east / african (refugees!) rather than eastern european to fulfil the promise regarding EU.

You are totally right it is UK fault and UK fault alone regarding our benefit entitlement structure. Total clap trap that EU makes us dole out benefit as we do.

You'll just have to invest in robots rather than have your company rely on EU migrants.

The solution is already to hand. According to Mark Carney, robots will put millions out of jobs, something Harold Wilson forecast in the 1960s.

Loadsa fish in the sea. We just wind back calendar to 1970s ''cod wars'', and send in our warships, oops i mean warship ........

Immigration from both the EU and outside the EU is dependent on the economy.

Going by (warped) logic everything is unpredictable and therefore immigration has nothing to do with our energy needs.

You seem all over the place with your own arguments.

Brexit UK fishing gets to extend its exclusive zone from 6 miles to 12 miles and gets to set its own quotas and gets to end quota hopping foreign owned ships flying under British flags. So UK fishing gets lots more natural resources to exploit. Subject only to any agreements the UK makes with other nations on managing fish stocks. Agreements where the UK represents its own interests.

The UK currently exports a lot of fish to other EU nations but other EU nations exports far more fish to the UK. If there is a trade barrier for fish after Brexit. Maybe we could supply more of our own fish? Maybe we could export more to the current major non EU customers for our fish the USA, China, Nigeria, South Korea, Hong Kong, Vietnam, United Arab Emirates, Canada, Taiwan, etc.

Not just Carney and a possibility that doesn't sit well with the future for anyone.

Wilson said people would be paid for doing nothing but ddidn't say anything about sitting at home getting morbidly obese. Anyway, you're just an online fisherman rather than a net fisherman.

Wilson spoke of leisure centers opening up right across the country; it did start to happen but the project came to an end in the late 70's for some reason.

Actually his statement is perfectly correct. You don't need to be in the single market to access it.

There's not as many Bass as there used to be and now even Pollock is getting thin on the ground (well... tide). I've had to change the species I target, again

I caught a nice mullet on a trailing mackerel line. It was around 1951/2, year that is, not lbs. Large grey mullet used to be plentiful cruising the surface of Ramsgate harbour, that was around 1947, half a bread roll wasn't too big as bait.....they may not still be there. I only ever hooked one on one of those hand lines. As soon as it was clear of the water, it came off and my hook was straight. I'll swear it weighed a cwt or more.

If the fish costs more than Norwegian or Spanish fish, no one will buy it- thats what happens when you have prices, tariffs, and alternative suppliers. indeed, its why Remain pointed out that we would be able to trade less, and why they also noted that other states now have an interest in blocking our market access, and the means to- do it - so their fishermen thrive and ours go out of business.

Such is the nature of taking back control . Spain and its fishermen's lobby now control the fate of our fishing industry.

If the fish costs more than Norwegian or Spanish fish, no one will buy it- thats what happens when you have prices, tariffs, and alternative suppliers. indeed, its why Remain pointed out that we would be able to trade less, and why they also noted that other states now have an interest in blocking our market access, and the means to- do it - so their fishermen thrive and ours go out of business.

Such is the nature of taking back control . Spain and its fishermen's lobby now control the fate of our fishing industry

does iceland allow foreign boats to fish in its waters.
ive got a great idea. lets take back control of our fishing grounds for british owned and staffed fishing vessels only and the 200 mile limit and catch our own fish and then sell it here in the uk and abroad.
bexit is brexit.

Iceland pays into the EU and has free movement.

Is that what you are proposing for the uk.

You really need to get out of your doom and gloom pants, shit happens all of the time. Instead of trying to lead lemmings off the cliff, look to do something exciting.

Brexit might happen, I don't give a monkeys to be honest but you really are depressing.