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Tilda Swinton and Margot Cho's 'Doctor Strange' emails take ugly turn


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Old 17-12-2016, 16:20
baltimoremd
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http://us.blastingnews.com/showbiz-t...001335337.html
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Old 17-12-2016, 16:56
viva.espana
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The only 'ugly' thing here is Cho's version of events, which is not remotely backed up by her and Tilda's actually really thoughtful and interesting email exchange. Quite why Cho choose to present their conversation in such a provocative light is puzzling.

Here's the email transcript at Vulture.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/12/read-...ntroversy.html
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Old 17-12-2016, 17:50
Dan Fortesque
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I didn't read anything ugly there either.
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Old 17-12-2016, 22:59
boddism
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The only 'ugly' thing here is Cho's version of events, which is not remotely backed up by her and Tilda's actually really thoughtful and interesting email exchange. Quite why Cho choose to present their conversation in such a provocative light is puzzling.

Here's the email transcript at Vulture.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/12/read-...ntroversy.html
Tilda seemed quite polite & civilised throughout.

And she explained thoroughly why the decision wasn't made to portray her character as Asian. Even if she hadn't have offered that explanation- SHE hasn't been responsible for casting so none of this is her fault! So I don't see what shes done wrong.
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Old 18-12-2016, 14:27
Cestrian18
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Tilda seemed particularly intelligent and thoughtful in this exchange and its really interesting she wanted to tackle the issue and understand some of the outrage directed at her.

Margaret Cho comes across badly in the way she presented it and seems a little bitter to me that she got a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they switched that character. Diversity is a problem in hollywood, but it should also be diversity on merit, not just box ticking if it wouldn't work with the film. Blaming working actors and actresses for accepting work just seems to be the wrong way to go about it imo.
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Old 19-12-2016, 19:48
mr muggles
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There's nothing UGLY here from Margaret. She's standing up for her people. There's nothing wrong with Tilda either.

However, there are UGLY people out there who actively seek a division between these two decent progressive women.

And it's always depressing to see people immediatly siding with a 'decent white woman' over a woman of ethnicity whom is standing up for her people, which is the height of 'decency' in itself. I'm sure The Daily Fail would love to cover this too.

The above paragraph in no way denigrates Tilda (i like her as much as Cho ), but points out the way the article seeks to put down Cho - and to make Tilda the 'wronged woman'....

Possibly because Margaret is quite an outspoken activist...?

You Go Gurl!
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Old 19-12-2016, 21:04
dave2702
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With one eye on the China Market, Marvel were always going to move the setting away from Tibet and pretend it didn't exist. Hence the Nepal setting
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Old 19-12-2016, 21:19
artlesschaos
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There's nothing UGLY here from Margaret. She's standing up for her people. There's nothing wrong with Tilda either.

However, there are UGLY people out there who actively seek a division between these two decent progressive women.

And it's always depressing to see people immediatly siding with a 'decent white woman' over a woman of ethnicity whom is standing up for her people, which is the height of 'decency' in itself. I'm sure The Daily Fail would love to cover this too.

The above paragraph in no way denigrates Tilda (i like her as much as Cho ), but points out the way the article seeks to put down Cho - and to make Tilda the 'wronged woman'....

Possibly because Margaret is quite an outspoken activist...?

You Go Gurl!
Accusing TS of treating her like a "house Asian" and implying rudeness or weirdness from TS is ugly if neither of those things happened. Cho should be honest in her activism, or she negates the point and the argument gets lost in the story.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:36
mr muggles
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Accusing TS of treating her like a "house Asian" and implying rudeness or weirdness from TS is ugly if neither of those things happened. Cho should be honest in her activism, or she negates the point and the argument gets lost in the story.
I've followed Margaret Cho for some time & as a minority person who's endured alot of race issues in the Hollywood system, she's bound to be prickly. And has every right to be for herself & her people. Going by the soft foot approach applied by Swinton's email, which is so cautiously 'Guardian elite liberal' - it's hilarious - I would imagine Cho (whom is out spoken & defo prefers to 'say it like it is' was p$ssed alittle. A clash of cultures....
And so far, only Tildas 'team' have brought up the fact there was only e-mails, whereas Cho has said they talked as well...

Maybe i'm just too hard skinned, but if Cho said she felt like she was being treated as "house Asian" I don't read 'nasty'. 'P$ssed off' seems more appropriate.
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Old 20-12-2016, 08:59
artlesschaos
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I've followed Margaret Cho for some time & as a minority person who's endured alot of race issues in the Hollywood system, she's bound to be prickly. And has every right to be for herself & her people. Going by the soft foot approach applied by Swinton's email, which is so cautiously 'Guardian elite liberal' - it's hilarious - I would imagine Cho (whom is out spoken & defo prefers to 'say it like it is' was p$ssed alittle. A clash of cultures....
And so far, only Tildas 'team' have brought up the fact there was only e-mails, whereas Cho has said they talked as well...

Maybe i'm just too hard skinned, but if Cho said she felt like she was being treated as "house Asian" I don't read 'nasty'. 'P$ssed off' seems more appropriate.
I think it's more a case of someone not knowing when to stop fighting, because there is nothing condescending that I can see, and she aired her grievance very publicly, which is uneccesary and rude. TS seems unlikely to lie in this situation as she has nothing to lie about, she was not courting publicity. The very Guardianesque nature of her writing implies that she would be mortified to have appeared imperial, and would issue a public apology rather than emails.
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Old 20-12-2016, 18:08
Mrs Checks
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I like Tilda, but I can't help but feel her final paragraph about the movie she is producing is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are black" type of argument...

I also think I can see both sides here. I am white, I am well aware I'm privileged because of the colour of my skin. I do not see a lack of people who look like me in movies. However, when I compare it to a similar issue that does effect me - namely, the lack of non-sexualised female roles in big Hollywood movies - then I can see why Margaret is angry. Tilda's responses remind me of the 'mansplaining' I've been on the recieving end of when I've talked about this issue. Her mentioning the Korean movie reminds me of all the men who say to women like me "but what about The Hunger Games?", as if one single franchise, in a SEA of movies featuring male stars, is enough to mollify women who feel they are not being fairly represented on screen.

Yeah, I get it. I don't blame Margaret. I think Tilda truly meant well, but I think she was very misguided.
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Old 20-12-2016, 18:52
dodrade
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I like Tilda, but I can't help but feel her final paragraph about the movie she is producing is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are black" type of argument...
Did you read the correspondence? Cho suggested helping get more Asian-American projects made, Swinton's reply was that she was already doing so.

It's pretty low behaviour of Cho to use an innocuous exchange (which she had agreed to keep private) to insult someone who with regard to the "diversity" debate is actually on her side.
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Old 20-12-2016, 19:47
mr muggles
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I like Tilda, but I can't help but feel her final paragraph about the movie she is producing is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are black" type of argument...

I also think I can see both sides here. I am white, I am well aware I'm privileged because of the colour of my skin. I do not see a lack of people who look like me in movies. However, when I compare it to a similar issue that does effect me - namely, the lack of non-sexualised female roles in big Hollywood movies - then I can see why Margaret is angry. Tilda's responses remind me of the 'mansplaining' I've been on the recieving end of when I've talked about this issue. Her mentioning the Korean movie reminds me of all the men who say to women like me "but what about The Hunger Games?", as if one single franchise, in a SEA of movies featuring male stars, is enough to mollify women who feel they are not being fairly represented on screen.

Yeah, I get it. I don't blame Margaret. I think Tilda truly meant well, but I think she was very misguided.
This.
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Old 20-12-2016, 20:43
Mrs Checks
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Did you read the correspondence? Cho suggested helping get more Asian-American projects made, Swinton's reply was that she was already doing so.

It's pretty low behaviour of Cho to use an innocuous exchange (which she had agreed to keep private) to insult someone who with regard to the "diversity" debate is actually on her side.
Well clearly I did read the correspondence, otherwise I wouldn't have known that was Tilda's last paragraph. I am aware that she was effectively responding to Magaret's suggestion, however the way she structured her response was mildly troublesome to me. Stating "by the way, xxx" in this context is very similar to what I suggested above, and also is a way to shut down discussion.

To be honest, the privacy thing bothers me also. Why did Tilda want this to be private? Doesn't that request of privacy automatically place Margaret in a kind of subservient role? What were Margaret's choices - either agree to privacy and get to hear Tilda's take on things, or say no (to someone much higher up the Hollywood rank, don't forget) and miss the opportunity to discuss her grievances with someone in a potential position of influence?

As I said above, I can see both sides and not for a minute do I believe Tilda Swinton meant any harm. However, I can also see that from Margaret's point of view, it is very much like she has pointed out an issue that effects her due to her ethnicity, yet has a white person tell her all the reasons why she is wrong, while still reminding her she's on her side. I can totally understand why that would be confusing and send a mixed message, and again, as I said above, it compares to experiences I have had.
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Old 20-12-2016, 21:36
mr muggles
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Well clearly I did read the correspondence, otherwise I wouldn't have known that was Tilda's last paragraph. I am aware that she was effectively responding to Magaret's suggestion, however the way she structured her response was mildly troublesome to me. Stating "by the way, xxx" in this context is very similar to what I suggested above, and also is a way to shut down discussion.

To be honest, the privacy thing bothers me also. Why did Tilda want this to be private? Doesn't that request of privacy automatically place Margaret in a kind of subservient role? What were Margaret's choices - either agree to privacy and get to hear Tilda's take on things, or say no (to someone much higher up the Hollywood rank, don't forget) and miss the opportunity to discuss her grievances with someone in a potential position of influence?

As I said above, I can see both sides and not for a minute do I believe Tilda Swinton meant any harm. However, I can also see that from Margaret's point of view, it is very much like she has pointed out an issue that effects her due to her ethnicity, yet has a white person tell her all the reasons why she is wrong, while still reminding her she's on her side. I can totally understand why that would be confusing and send a mixed message, and again, as I said above, it compares to experiences I have had.
Well put. Much better than I could say it.
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Old 20-12-2016, 21:40
mr muggles
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http://www.laineygossip.com/Tilda-Sw...-nothing/45774

This is a 'gossip' site - but it does bring a couple of points to the fore: especially about 'racial absolution', which hit the nail on the head for me.
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Old 22-12-2016, 23:26
mickmars
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Margaret Cho, former drug addict who created and starred in a flop TV show that was full of Asian stereotypes,now a ultra right on politically correct leftie"comedian"


Dear oh Dear
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Old 23-12-2016, 01:10
mr muggles
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Margaret Cho, former drug addict who created and starred in a flop TV show that was full of Asian stereotypes,now a ultra right on politically correct leftie"comedian"


Dear oh Dear
Maybe if you checked out her her-story, you would be alittle more 'in tune'. Also, is there anything wrong in being a 'former' drug addict...?

Dear oh dear...

chin chin.
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Old 23-12-2016, 04:26
FingersAndToes
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I like Tilda, but I can't help but feel her final paragraph about the movie she is producing is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are black" type of argument...

I also think I can see both sides here. I am white, I am well aware I'm privileged because of the colour of my skin. I do not see a lack of people who look like me in movies. However, when I compare it to a similar issue that does effect me - namely, the lack of non-sexualised female roles in big Hollywood movies - then I can see why Margaret is angry. Tilda's responses remind me of the 'mansplaining' I've been on the recieving end of when I've talked about this issue. Her mentioning the Korean movie r IIIeminds me of all the men who say to women like me "but what about The Hunger Games?", as if one single franchise, in a SEA of movies featuring male stars, is enough to mollify women who feel they are not being fairly represented on screen.

Yeah, I get it. I don't blame Margaret. I think Tilda truly meant well, but I think she was very misguided.
Thank you.
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Old 23-12-2016, 05:32
stvn758
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People would complain it was a stereotype if it was played by an Asian, as for Tilda decent roles for older women are sparse to say the least so she can hardly be blamed for taking it.
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Old 23-12-2016, 08:40
FingersAndToes
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People would complain it was a stereotype if it was played by an Asian, as for Tilda decent roles for older women are sparse to say the least so she can hardly be blamed for taking it.
Decent roles for older white women are sparce, so I imagine they are non existent for older Asian women.
No one would complain about it being a stereotype if a role meant for Asian was actually played by Asian.
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Old 24-12-2016, 17:23
dodrade
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Decent roles for older white women are sparce, so I imagine they are non existent for older Asian women.
No one would complain about it being a stereotype if a role meant for Asian was actually played by Asian.
Yes they would have, SJW's can never be satisfied no matter what you do.

Note how the presence of Benedict Wong and Chiwetel Ejiofor (in a role written as white in the Comics) is ignored by Cho as it undermines her "whitewashing" narrative.
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Old 28-12-2016, 16:09
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Decent roles for older white women are sparce, so I imagine they are non existent for older Asian women.
No one would complain about it being a stereotype if a role meant for Asian was actually played by Asian.


That's funny.
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