|
||||||||
Tilda Swinton and Margot Cho's 'Doctor Strange' emails take ugly turn |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#1 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 13
|
Tilda Swinton and Margot Cho's 'Doctor Strange' emails take ugly turn
|
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#2 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,012
|
The only 'ugly' thing here is Cho's version of events, which is not remotely backed up by her and Tilda's actually really thoughtful and interesting email exchange. Quite why Cho choose to present their conversation in such a provocative light is puzzling.
Here's the email transcript at Vulture. http://www.vulture.com/2016/12/read-...ntroversy.html |
|
|
|
|
|
#3 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 25,819
|
I didn't read anything ugly there either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#4 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast
Posts: 16,038
|
Quote:
The only 'ugly' thing here is Cho's version of events, which is not remotely backed up by her and Tilda's actually really thoughtful and interesting email exchange. Quite why Cho choose to present their conversation in such a provocative light is puzzling.
Here's the email transcript at Vulture. http://www.vulture.com/2016/12/read-...ntroversy.html And she explained thoroughly why the decision wasn't made to portray her character as Asian. Even if she hadn't have offered that explanation- SHE hasn't been responsible for casting so none of this is her fault! So I don't see what shes done wrong. |
|
|
|
|
|
#5 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,223
|
Tilda seemed particularly intelligent and thoughtful in this exchange and its really interesting she wanted to tackle the issue and understand some of the outrage directed at her.
Margaret Cho comes across badly in the way she presented it and seems a little bitter to me that she got a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they switched that character. Diversity is a problem in hollywood, but it should also be diversity on merit, not just box ticking if it wouldn't work with the film. Blaming working actors and actresses for accepting work just seems to be the wrong way to go about it imo. |
|
|
|
|
|
#6 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,462
|
There's nothing UGLY here from Margaret. She's standing up for her people. There's nothing wrong with Tilda either.
However, there are UGLY people out there who actively seek a division between these two decent progressive women. And it's always depressing to see people immediatly siding with a 'decent white woman' over a woman of ethnicity whom is standing up for her people, which is the height of 'decency' in itself. I'm sure The Daily Fail would love to cover this too. ![]() The above paragraph in no way denigrates Tilda (i like her as much as Cho ), but points out the way the article seeks to put down Cho - and to make Tilda the 'wronged woman'.... Possibly because Margaret is quite an outspoken activist...? You Go Gurl!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#7 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Offenburg, Germany
Posts: 1,351
|
With one eye on the China Market, Marvel were always going to move the setting away from Tibet and pretend it didn't exist. Hence the Nepal setting
|
|
|
|
|
|
#8 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: 🇫🇷❤
Posts: 9,916
|
Quote:
There's nothing UGLY here from Margaret. She's standing up for her people. There's nothing wrong with Tilda either.
However, there are UGLY people out there who actively seek a division between these two decent progressive women. And it's always depressing to see people immediatly siding with a 'decent white woman' over a woman of ethnicity whom is standing up for her people, which is the height of 'decency' in itself. I'm sure The Daily Fail would love to cover this too. ![]() The above paragraph in no way denigrates Tilda (i like her as much as Cho ), but points out the way the article seeks to put down Cho - and to make Tilda the 'wronged woman'.... Possibly because Margaret is quite an outspoken activist...? You Go Gurl! ![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#9 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,462
|
Quote:
Accusing TS of treating her like a "house Asian" and implying rudeness or weirdness from TS is ugly if neither of those things happened. Cho should be honest in her activism, or she negates the point and the argument gets lost in the story.
And so far, only Tildas 'team' have brought up the fact there was only e-mails, whereas Cho has said they talked as well... Maybe i'm just too hard skinned, but if Cho said she felt like she was being treated as "house Asian" I don't read 'nasty'. 'P$ssed off' seems more appropriate. |
|
|
|
|
|
#10 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: 🇫🇷❤
Posts: 9,916
|
Quote:
I've followed Margaret Cho for some time & as a minority person who's endured alot of race issues in the Hollywood system, she's bound to be prickly. And has every right to be for herself & her people. Going by the soft foot approach applied by Swinton's email, which is so cautiously 'Guardian elite liberal' - it's hilarious - I would imagine Cho (whom is out spoken & defo prefers to 'say it like it is' was p$ssed alittle. A clash of cultures....
And so far, only Tildas 'team' have brought up the fact there was only e-mails, whereas Cho has said they talked as well... Maybe i'm just too hard skinned, but if Cho said she felt like she was being treated as "house Asian" I don't read 'nasty'. 'P$ssed off' seems more appropriate. |
|
|
|
|
|
#11 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,764
|
I like Tilda, but I can't help but feel her final paragraph about the movie she is producing is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are black" type of argument...
I also think I can see both sides here. I am white, I am well aware I'm privileged because of the colour of my skin. I do not see a lack of people who look like me in movies. However, when I compare it to a similar issue that does effect me - namely, the lack of non-sexualised female roles in big Hollywood movies - then I can see why Margaret is angry. Tilda's responses remind me of the 'mansplaining' I've been on the recieving end of when I've talked about this issue. Her mentioning the Korean movie reminds me of all the men who say to women like me "but what about The Hunger Games?", as if one single franchise, in a SEA of movies featuring male stars, is enough to mollify women who feel they are not being fairly represented on screen. Yeah, I get it. I don't blame Margaret. I think Tilda truly meant well, but I think she was very misguided. |
|
|
|
|
|
#12 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,106
|
Quote:
I like Tilda, but I can't help but feel her final paragraph about the movie she is producing is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are black" type of argument...
It's pretty low behaviour of Cho to use an innocuous exchange (which she had agreed to keep private) to insult someone who with regard to the "diversity" debate is actually on her side. |
|
|
|
|
|
#13 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,462
|
Quote:
I like Tilda, but I can't help but feel her final paragraph about the movie she is producing is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are black" type of argument...
I also think I can see both sides here. I am white, I am well aware I'm privileged because of the colour of my skin. I do not see a lack of people who look like me in movies. However, when I compare it to a similar issue that does effect me - namely, the lack of non-sexualised female roles in big Hollywood movies - then I can see why Margaret is angry. Tilda's responses remind me of the 'mansplaining' I've been on the recieving end of when I've talked about this issue. Her mentioning the Korean movie reminds me of all the men who say to women like me "but what about The Hunger Games?", as if one single franchise, in a SEA of movies featuring male stars, is enough to mollify women who feel they are not being fairly represented on screen. Yeah, I get it. I don't blame Margaret. I think Tilda truly meant well, but I think she was very misguided. |
|
|
|
|
|
#14 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,764
|
Quote:
Did you read the correspondence? Cho suggested helping get more Asian-American projects made, Swinton's reply was that she was already doing so.
It's pretty low behaviour of Cho to use an innocuous exchange (which she had agreed to keep private) to insult someone who with regard to the "diversity" debate is actually on her side. To be honest, the privacy thing bothers me also. Why did Tilda want this to be private? Doesn't that request of privacy automatically place Margaret in a kind of subservient role? What were Margaret's choices - either agree to privacy and get to hear Tilda's take on things, or say no (to someone much higher up the Hollywood rank, don't forget) and miss the opportunity to discuss her grievances with someone in a potential position of influence? As I said above, I can see both sides and not for a minute do I believe Tilda Swinton meant any harm. However, I can also see that from Margaret's point of view, it is very much like she has pointed out an issue that effects her due to her ethnicity, yet has a white person tell her all the reasons why she is wrong, while still reminding her she's on her side. I can totally understand why that would be confusing and send a mixed message, and again, as I said above, it compares to experiences I have had. |
|
|
|
|
|
#15 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,462
|
Quote:
Well clearly I did read the correspondence, otherwise I wouldn't have known that was Tilda's last paragraph. I am aware that she was effectively responding to Magaret's suggestion, however the way she structured her response was mildly troublesome to me. Stating "by the way, xxx" in this context is very similar to what I suggested above, and also is a way to shut down discussion.
To be honest, the privacy thing bothers me also. Why did Tilda want this to be private? Doesn't that request of privacy automatically place Margaret in a kind of subservient role? What were Margaret's choices - either agree to privacy and get to hear Tilda's take on things, or say no (to someone much higher up the Hollywood rank, don't forget) and miss the opportunity to discuss her grievances with someone in a potential position of influence? As I said above, I can see both sides and not for a minute do I believe Tilda Swinton meant any harm. However, I can also see that from Margaret's point of view, it is very much like she has pointed out an issue that effects her due to her ethnicity, yet has a white person tell her all the reasons why she is wrong, while still reminding her she's on her side. I can totally understand why that would be confusing and send a mixed message, and again, as I said above, it compares to experiences I have had. |
|
|
|
|
|
#16 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,462
|
http://www.laineygossip.com/Tilda-Sw...-nothing/45774
This is a 'gossip' site - but it does bring a couple of points to the fore: especially about 'racial absolution', which hit the nail on the head for me. |
|
|
|
|
|
#17 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 1984
Posts: 7,100
|
Margaret Cho, former drug addict who created and starred in a flop TV show that was full of Asian stereotypes,now a ultra right on politically correct leftie"comedian"
Dear oh Dear |
|
|
|
|
|
#18 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,462
|
Quote:
Margaret Cho, former drug addict who created and starred in a flop TV show that was full of Asian stereotypes,now a ultra right on politically correct leftie"comedian"
Dear oh Dear Dear oh dear... ![]() chin chin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#19 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,485
|
Quote:
I like Tilda, but I can't help but feel her final paragraph about the movie she is producing is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are black" type of argument...
I also think I can see both sides here. I am white, I am well aware I'm privileged because of the colour of my skin. I do not see a lack of people who look like me in movies. However, when I compare it to a similar issue that does effect me - namely, the lack of non-sexualised female roles in big Hollywood movies - then I can see why Margaret is angry. Tilda's responses remind me of the 'mansplaining' I've been on the recieving end of when I've talked about this issue. Her mentioning the Korean movie r IIIeminds me of all the men who say to women like me "but what about The Hunger Games?", as if one single franchise, in a SEA of movies featuring male stars, is enough to mollify women who feel they are not being fairly represented on screen. Yeah, I get it. I don't blame Margaret. I think Tilda truly meant well, but I think she was very misguided. |
|
|
|
|
|
#20 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 17,332
|
People would complain it was a stereotype if it was played by an Asian, as for Tilda decent roles for older women are sparse to say the least so she can hardly be blamed for taking it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#21 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,485
|
Quote:
People would complain it was a stereotype if it was played by an Asian, as for Tilda decent roles for older women are sparse to say the least so she can hardly be blamed for taking it.
No one would complain about it being a stereotype if a role meant for Asian was actually played by Asian. |
|
|
|
|
|
#22 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,106
|
Quote:
Decent roles for older white women are sparce, so I imagine they are non existent for older Asian women.
No one would complain about it being a stereotype if a role meant for Asian was actually played by Asian. Note how the presence of Benedict Wong and Chiwetel Ejiofor (in a role written as white in the Comics) is ignored by Cho as it undermines her "whitewashing" narrative. |
|
|
|
|
|
#23 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,027
|
Quote:
Decent roles for older white women are sparce, so I imagine they are non existent for older Asian women.
No one would complain about it being a stereotype if a role meant for Asian was actually played by Asian. ![]() ![]() ![]() That's funny. |
|
|
|
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 18:55.




chin chin.
