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What's going on in Ireland?
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irishfeen
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“I am not sure why you're all wetting yourselves with excitement over this? You do know that since you gave your economic sovereignty to the EU there isn't a thing you can do to stop this boom? You're just repeating what went on before. And the same after effects that went on before will happen again.”

Ah relax a little - whatever happens we Irish will enjoy ourselves.. it's in our nature and it's our culture to do so!
MTUK1
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by greenyone:
“And people just don't want to believe it will happen again”

Of course. Look at the zero responses to my post apart from yours. I am not saying we're a paragon of economic virtue, but at least we control our own economy. The Irish have to get their yearly budget signed off by Brussels before it's presented to the Irish government. Disgraceful.
Cheetah666
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Of course. Look at the zero responses to my post apart from yours. I am not saying we're a paragon of economic virtue, but at least we control our own economy. The Irish have to get their yearly budget signed off by Brussels before it's presented to the Irish government. Disgraceful.”

All EZ countries view a draft of each other's budgets before the final version is sent to their own parliaments. That's just part of being in a currency union.
MTUK1
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Cheetah666:
“All EZ countries view a draft of each other's budgets before the final version is sent to their own parliaments. That's just part of being in a currency union.”

Democracy at its finest. Not.
kidspud
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Democracy at its finest. Not.”

Some people really shouldn't use long words they don't understand the meaning of
Kiteview
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“I am not sure why you're all wetting yourselves with excitement over this? You do know that since you gave your economic sovereignty to the EU there isn't a thing you can do to stop this boom? You're just repeating what went on before. And the same after effects that went on before will happen again.”

This isn't correct. If the Irish government want to slow down their economy, they are free to: a) hike taxes, b) cut spending or c) use any additional tax revenue raised due to an expanding economy to pay down their national debt. Any of the three will reduce the amount of money in circulation in their domestic economy, thus slowing it down.

Based on your logic, no sub-unit of an economy - be it a local authority, a regional government or a (US style) state one - would ever be able to avoid operating on a perennial "boom and bust" basis. That clearly isn't the case.
Eurostar
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“I am not sure why you're all wetting yourselves with excitement over this? You do know that since you gave your economic sovereignty to the EU there isn't a thing you can do to stop this boom? You're just repeating what went on before. And the same after effects that went on before will happen again.”

Isn't the whole point of an economic or monetary union that it has rules? You cannot have full sovereignty unless you sail off to a desert island on a raft and live there alone for the next 40 years. Anybody who is bound by rules of any description has seen some loss of sovereignty.
MTUK1
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Kiteview:
“This isn't correct. If the Irish government want to slow down their economy, they are free to: a) hike taxes, b) cut spending or c) use any additional tax revenue raised due to an expanding economy to pay down their national debt. Any of the three will reduce the amount of money in circulation in their domestic economy, thus slowing it down.

Based on your logic, no sub-unit of an economy - be it a local authority, a regional government or a (US style) state one - would ever be able to avoid operating on a perennial "boom and bust" basis. That clearly isn't the case.”

No. They have no control over anything. It all has to be approved by their masters in Brussels.
MTUK1
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“Isn't the whole point of an economic or monetary union that it has rules? You cannot have full sovereignty unless you sail off to a desert island on a raft and live there alone for the next 40 years. Anybody who is bound by rules of any description has seen some loss of sovereignty.”

No way. If you give away control of your economy to unelected bureaucrats overseas you are not a sovereign nation no matter how much you pretend you are.
allaorta
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“Seeing as the Irish didn't participate in the referendum, they therefore don't have to "respect the will of the majority" (as they are part of neither the majority nor the minority). They are perfectly free to either praise or slate Brexit from the outside (just as UK based DS members can say whatever they like about the American election).”

Except I doubt anyone on here is flashing around American discussion boards with mainly gloom and doom threads and posts about Brexit. See the difference?
Cheetah666
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“No. They have no control over anything. It all has to be approved by their masters in Brussels.”

No it doesn't. You clearly don't understand how the EZ works.
allaorta
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Cheetah666:
“No it doesn't. You clearly don't understand how the EZ works.”

I'll phone a friend of mine in Greece, she'll understand.
Cheetah666
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by allaorta:
“I'll phone a friend of mine in Greece, she'll understand.”

Greece is still in a bailout programme, Ireland isn't.
Eurostar
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by allaorta:
“Except I doubt anyone on here is flashing around American discussion boards with mainly gloom and doom threads and posts about Brexit. See the difference?”

It's no harm at all if non-UK people are posting here and giving their opinion on the British political scene IMO, Such people would be perfectly free to speak up in favour of Brexit if they so desired.
allaorta
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Cheetah666:
“Greece is still in a bailout programme, Ireland isn't.”

It went straight past you, didn't it. What you call the bail-out, most Greeks would probably call oppression, something an Irishman should recognise.
allaorta
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“It's no harm at all if non-UK people are posting here and giving their opinion on the British political scene IMO, Such people would be perfectly free to speak up in favour of Brexit if they so desired.”

When you find 50% of them, I'll believe they're not on here to trawl for shyte.
Cheetah666
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by allaorta:
“It went straight past you, didn't it. What you call the bail-out, most Greeks would probably call oppression, something an Irishman should recognise.”

I have a lot of sympathy for the Greeks but I'm not blind to the fact that they're partly responsible for their own problems. And nobody forced them to join the euro and nobody is forcing them to stay in it either.
Eurostar
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“No way. If you give away control of your economy to unelected bureaucrats overseas you are not a sovereign nation no matter how much you pretend you are.”

If you're part of any economic union or trading bloc around the world and are abiding by the rules, then you have seen some loss of sovereignty.....it goes with the territory. The people of Yorkshire or Cornwall or Sussex don't have full sovereignty either in that they can't govern themselves and make up their own rules and must obey the national laws of the UK.
allaorta
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Cheetah666:
“I have a lot of sympathy for the Greeks but I'm not blind to the fact that they're partly responsible for their own problems. And nobody forced them to join the euro and nobody is forcing them to stay in it either.”

Their politicians forced the people to join the euro the same as politicians force countries to join the EU and have multiple referenda on a single issue.
Cheetah666
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by allaorta:
“Their politicians forced the people to join the euro the same as politicians force countries to join the EU and have multiple referenda on a single issue.”

Then they should blame their own politicians instead of blaming the EU for everything. Although as it happens I don't remember any protests in Greece against joining the euro at the time.
allaorta
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Cheetah666:
“Then they should blame their own politicians instead of blaming the EU for everything. Although as it happens I don't remember any protests in Greece against joining the euro at the time.”

They did and they changed them for something they thought was better, once again to be shat upon.
Cheetah666
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by allaorta:
“They did and they changed them for something they thought was better, once again to be shat upon.”

Maybe but that has nothing to do with the euro. Syriza campaigned for election on a platform that promised to keep them in the eurozone, you might not like it but that was their democratic decision.
Mark_Jones9
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Cheetah666:
“No it doesn't. You clearly don't understand how the EZ works.”

Ireland each year submits a compliance report stability programme to the European Commission and the Council of Ministers.
It sets out the country's expected fiscal development for the current and subsequent three years.
Ireland has to adhere to medium-term budgetary objectives calculated under EU rules so Ireland adheres to the medium-term sustainable average-limit for the country's EU dictated structural deficit limit.
Ireland also has to comply with a overall deficit limit and a total debt limit
Failure to manage its economy with EU oversight and within EU dictated parameters will trigger the EU dictating what the Irish government must do and penalty actions if Ireland does not do as told.
MTUK1
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Cheetah666:
“No it doesn't. You clearly don't understand how the EZ works.”

Yes, I do. You have no control over economic decisions.
MTUK1
18-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“If you're part of any economic union or trading bloc around the world and are abiding by the rules, then you have seen some loss of sovereignty.....it goes with the territory. The people of Yorkshire or Cornwall or Sussex don't have full sovereignty either in that they can't govern themselves and make up their own rules and must obey the national laws of the UK.”

The people of Cornwall, Sussex and Yorkshire are part of the United Kingdom. Ireland isn't part of Belgium or Germany as far as I know. Although thinking about it, fiscally it is.
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