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American Politics Discussion Thread |
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#226 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,748
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Quote:
Yes but in most areas of the US, more people voted for Trump. The Democrats need to have appeal beyond big cities if they want to get into power. It doesn't matter how many people vote for them in California and the North East if they can't get votes in "flyover country".
if you look at most of his core policies on the economy, labour rights, environmental protection and tax, they will actually benefit the so-called elite that most trump supporters were protesting against rather than the "ordinary americans" they consider themselves to be. |
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#227 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,735
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Quote:
No, but they should listen to what people want the government to do. Stop telling people, and start listening to people, and not just rely on people voting for them because they aren't the other guys.
Yet in many cases those republican voters were misinformed. Take unemployment - ask Republican voters they will tell you that unemployment went up - it has not it went down. Indeed the US is within range of full employment. This is the problem Trump is going to have. Because he sent expectations that he is not going to be able to deliver. The victory he had was not by that much and it will not take much to swing the other way. He cannot deliver more jobs growth. The other problem is not that the Democrats message was wrong, so much as it was not being heard. People now get their news from self-selecting silos - so it matters not that unemployment was going down, if all they heard was massive increase in unemployment from their twitter feed that is what they believed - even though it was not true. |
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#228 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,312
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For Potus it's effectively states that vote so low population states have a higher influence in the electoral college than high population states. California should split itself into 10 states
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#229 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,933
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Quote:
Yet with 2-3m more votes what you are saying is that the Democrats should listen to a minority in order to get elected.
Yet in many cases those republican voters were misinformed. Take unemployment - ask Republican voters they will tell you that unemployment went up - it has not it went down. Indeed the US is within range of full employment. This is the problem Trump is going to have. Because he sent expectations that he is not going to be able to deliver. The victory he had was not by that much and it will not take much to swing the other way. He cannot deliver more jobs growth. The other problem is not that the Democrats message was wrong, so much as it was not being heard. People now get their news from self-selecting silos - so it matters not that unemployment was going down, if all they heard was massive increase in unemployment from their twitter feed that is what they believed - even though it was not true. it is the poisonous nature of the system - there is no bipartisanship, because the political capital of pushing for across-aisle solutions is outweighed by the fallout of the extremes of both parties, waiting to demonise (and deselect) anyone who dips their toe in more moderate water. It's notable that very few newer political winners can be called true moderates and those that are, are a throwback to a bygone ere of politics. |
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#230 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,312
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Kellyanne is going to be trump's counselor. Would have thought someone medically qualified would be better
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#231 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,639
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Quote:
Yet with 2-3m more votes what you are saying is that the Democrats should listen to a minority in order to get elected.
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Yet in many cases those republican voters were misinformed. Take unemployment - ask Republican voters they will tell you that unemployment went up - it has not it went down. Indeed the US is within range of full employment.
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This is the problem Trump is going to have. Because he sent expectations that he is not going to be able to deliver. The victory he had was not by that much and it will not take much to swing the other way. He cannot deliver more jobs growth.
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The other problem is not that the Democrats message was wrong, so much as it was not being heard. People now get their news from self-selecting silos - so it matters not that unemployment was going down, if all they heard was massive increase in unemployment from their twitter feed that is what they believed - even though it was not true.
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#232 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,425
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What's the alternative? Not listening and not getting elected? It doesn't matter how many votes you get, it never has, and doesn't here in Britain either. The key is to get enough votes in enough seats to win.So inform them. Make it clear to them that unemployment is down. People trust their own experience and judgment over statistics that they have no way of knowing the veracity of. The democrats cannot rely on the Republicans messing up to be able to get into power. They need to actually have some policies that will benefit the entire country, not just major cities on the coasts.There is no shortage of democrat supporting media in the US, look at all the glum faces on news programmes after Trump won. The problem is that people don't trust the mainstream media, people feel these people are aloof and out of touch with middle America. This needs to change, the media needs to move with the times, not sit there pontificating about "how could the American public be so stupid?" Take on board peoples opinions and concerns, don't just dismiss them as ignorant.
We shouldn't coddle the ignorant. |
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#233 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,282
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not just major cities on the coasts
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#234 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,866
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BIB - Tell a Republican that, and they'll tell you the statistics lie - and they wouldn't be entirely wrong! But you're right about the silos, Facebook ensures that people get the news they want to see, and no one is interested in hearing balanced views, because they don't get hits or views the way the more sensationalist stuff does. When people get reinforcing skewed messages of things they were already more likely to believe, it's an entrenched position that they will never be entirely lifted out of, no matter how persuasive you make the facts.
it is the poisonous nature of the system - there is no bipartisanship, because the political capital of pushing for across-aisle solutions is outweighed by the fallout of the extremes of both parties, waiting to demonise (and deselect) anyone who dips their toe in more moderate water. It's notable that very few newer political winners can be called true moderates and those that are, are a throwback to a bygone ere of politics. |
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#235 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,735
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Quote:
What's the alternative? Not listening and not getting elected? It doesn't matter how many votes you get, it never has, and doesn't here in Britain either. The key is to get enough votes in enough seats to win.
So inform them. Make it clear to them that unemployment is down. People trust their own experience and judgment over statistics that they have no way of knowing the veracity of. Look at this video of Rachel Madden - it shows how Republican voters literally believe absolutely the opposite of reality. Quote:
The democrats cannot rely on the Republicans messing up to be able to get into power.
Why not? There is an old adage in politics that oppositions do not win elections, governments lose them. With the Republicans in charge of both houses and a Republican President - they muck up and the democrats can step up to the plate.Quote:
They need to actually have some policies that will benefit the entire country, not just major cities on the coasts.
Reducing unemployment does benefit the whole country, I'll grant that it could be spread out and dealing with the unemployment in Detroit but what policies do you think they should have - expelling Muslims and Mexicans!Quote:
There is no shortage of democrat supporting media in the US, look at all the glum faces on news programmes after Trump won. The problem is that people don't trust the mainstream media, people feel these people are aloof and out of touch with middle America. This needs to change, the media needs to move with the times, not sit there pontificating about "how could the American public be so stupid?" Take on board peoples opinions and concerns, don't just dismiss them as ignorant.
If nobody trusts what you are saying - you could shout from the rooftops that the Grass is green and the sea blue and they will still look for their alternative sources and even if that source tells you grass is pink with white polka dots they will believe it even though the evidence (their eyes) tell them something else.Trump got elected by a diet of lies and more flip flops than a pair of beach shoes. |
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#236 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,494
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As I pointed out people are listening to news which fits in with their views - the Democrats are just not going to be listened to. If you have a person who only listens to one side and dismisses the rest as the mainstream media or some conspiracy it does not matter - they will still believe that black is white even as they are killed crossing a zebra crossing.
Look at this video of Rachel Madden - it shows how Republican voters literally believe absolutely the opposite of reality. Why not? There is an old adage in politics that oppositions do not win elections, governments lose them. With the Republicans in charge of both houses and a Republican President - they muck up and the democrats can step up to the plate. Reducing unemployment does benefit the whole country, I'll grant that it could be spread out and dealing with the unemployment in Detroit but what policies do you think they should have - expelling Muslims and Mexicans! If nobody trusts what you are saying - you could shout from the rooftops that the Grass is green and the sea blue and they will still look for their alternative sources and even if that source tells you grass is pink with white polka dots they will believe it even though the evidence (their eyes) tell them something else. Trump got elected by a diet of lies and more flip flops than a pair of beach shoes.
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#237 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,735
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Quote:
That video clip is CRAZY
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#238 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,639
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Quote:
Some opinions are ignorant. Trump's trade policy is completely ignorant, and he has millions of followers who don't understand economics, but who are simultaneously outraged that the news doesn't reflect their ignorant thoughts.
We shouldn't coddle the ignorant. Quote:
There are numerous major cities inland, for example Albuquerque NM, Atlanta GA, Charlotte NC, Chicago IL, Cincinnati OH, Cleveland OH, Columbus OH, Dallas TX, Denver CO, Detroit MI, Kansas City MO, Indianapolis IN, Las Vegas NV, Memphis TN, Minneapolis MN, Nashville TN, Oklahoma City OK, Philadelphia PA, Phoenix AZ, Pittsburgh PA, Portland OR and Salt Lake City UT.
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A lot of what you say is true, but I would point out that this political dis-function is not equally balanced. There are plenty of extremists on the Democratic side, but the Republicans are much, much worse. I don't want to excuse the Democrats from all blame in this regard, but much of the nasty partisanship in Washington should be attributed to the GOP. Although the American people seem to have decided to reward them for their appalling behaviour...
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As I pointed out people are listening to news which fits in with their views - the Democrats are just not going to be listened to.
Why does this problem affect Democrats more than Republicans?
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#239 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 21,645
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Quote:
The problem is that people don't trust the mainstream media, people feel these people are aloof and out of touch with middle America. This needs to change, the media needs to move with the times, not sit there pontificating about "how could the American public be so stupid?" Take on board peoples opinions and concerns, don't just dismiss them as ignorant.
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#240 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,639
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Quote:
So what you are saying is that everyone should get more stupid?
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#241 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,288
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Quote:
Kellyanne is going to be trump's counselor.
I hope Kellyanne gets to enjoy an occasional day off - and it also means Kate McKinnon has a guaranteed slot on SNL for 4 more years. https://youtu.be/Zjbc15X1zSM |
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#242 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
Excellent news.
I hope Kellyanne gets to enjoy an occasional day off - and it also means Kate McKinnon has a guaranteed slot on SNL for 4 more years. https://youtu.be/Zjbc15X1zSM |
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#243 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,748
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off-topic but Kate McKinnon has been a regular on SNL for more than 4 years and isn't just there to play Conway or Clinton
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#244 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,425
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Coddle them, no. But take their views into account, yes. At least if you want to win elections.
Cool ethics bro. |
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#245 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,288
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Quote:
off-topic but Kate McKinnon has been a regular on SNL for more than 4 years and isn't just there to play Conway or Clinton
![]() She might be too busy doing Ghostbusters sequels to do SNL of course. |
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#246 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,748
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Quote:
Always so picky even at Christmas!
![]() She might be too busy doing Ghostbusters sequels to do SNL of course.
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#247 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,748
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i'm so disappointed
Trump has just named his Communications team and Katriona Pierson has been overlooked as press secretary ![]() Dan Scavino to be the busiest man in the White House, he's going to be Trump's Social Media Director |
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#248 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,288
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Quote:
i'm so disappointed
Trump has just named his Communications team and Katriona Pierson has been overlooked as press secretary ![]() Dan Scavino to be the busiest man in the White House, he's going to be Trump's Social Media Director I am sure Katriona will get something - but she was rather rapidly dropped when Kellyanne came on the scene. Does the View need someone to annoy Joy Behar? And what does the future hold for Kayleigh McEnany - she probably needs to leave CNN before Van Jones and Ana Navarro lose it completely with her! Cos I know you adore Kayleigh even more than Katriona.
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#249 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,748
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Quote:
J
Amd what does the future hold for Kayleigh McEnany - she probably needs to leave CNN before van Jones and Ana Navarro lose it completely with her!
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#250 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,312
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